Yes, there is a blessing to both the giver and the receiver of the Good News. On the other hand, do you not believe that God could reveal Himself to whomever and however He wishes to do so, even if that person never has the opportunity to know about Jesus from another person?
I see. Perhaps it was not God's purpose at that time. If God really wanted them to be sent, what would have stopped them from going?
It has happened. People have reported having dreams or visions, but those reports are rare. Relying on this puts complacency in the hands of the church. It makes missions into an "extra" when it should be the focus. God gave instructions to go. I know this all seems off topic, but it is the problem with Christians having $300,000 cars. It stops the money in a vehicle when the money itself could impact the Gospel greatly. I can't say that a $500, $5,000, or $50,000 is too much, but no person on earth needs a $300,000 vehicle.
Indeed, it seems that the Lord is reaching people today in some Muslim lands through visions. It's our role to listen to and be obedient to the Lord's commands in the Bible, but he is by no means dependent on our faithfulness. I've heard some speakers lay into believers for not witnessing, claiming that some are lost because of our lack of faithfulness. Bunkum! Every one of God's children will be saved. Still, we miss out terribly when we don't accept God's pattern and are not faithful in day-to-day life.
Romans 1:19-20 God shows them... so they are without excuse. No where in this passage does it say "God told some guy from Kansas to go talk to them and give them a Bible and build a church, so they are without excuse." Please don't twist this to think I'm knocking missions. I'm not. I'm saying scripture is clear that God does not NEED us to spread His word. Yes, He wants us to, but He doesn't need us to. To be blunt, God doesn't need jack squat from us. I don't need my children to clean their room. I don't need my children to help me with chores. I don't need my children to learn to cook. I can do all of those things quite well without them (heck, I can usually do it better/faster without their help). Likewise, God does not need us to spread His gospel. He allows us to "help" Him for OUR own good. Just like my children cleaning their room is a life lesson for them, us doing missions work is a life lesson for us. There's nothing in it for God except being a good Father. You say no person on Earth needs a $300,000 vehicle? True. The same as no person on Earth needs an internet connection. Give up your luxuries before you ask them to give up theirs.
I agree with that! Yes, I also agree with people are used by God to provide...I did say that. I suppose my example was to say that God provided through someone out of the blue. So..not thin air...LOL...but that does prove that God will provide when He deems it. He does not need our money as He will find a way. But I am NOT against people having money by any means. I am not trying to argue against Christians earning a great income at all.
Exactly. He may use us...and he may use those who possess something in particular to fulfill something...but he doesn't NEED us for his will to be done. But..at the same time, if we don't witness, who will? Do we really need the rocks to cry out to do our job? But that's not what this discussion is all about anyway. I think we all know God provides and it's all His. I also think we all know that God uses people. I think we may have a slight difference in perspective, opinion or semantics.
Wait...I need to qualify...people can go against God's will. There is a direct effect when someone disregards the will of God. However, God will always get the glory and His will will be done in one way or another. It just may not be the way we expect or want. Just like in Esther when Mordecai told Esther that if not through her, it would be done anyway...but she was there for that purpose. Well...I have to go. Got a two year old that needs a nap.
Oh, I'm so upset!!! I go away for a morning and this conversation goes on about 5 or 6 pages without me, lol!!! @Amie: Way back when, you said we only "needed" land. With that, we could build our house, grow our own food, etc. Once upon a time, yes. But now you have to have all the correct permits to do that. The government "needs" its portion. You're not even allowed to hunt on your own land without a permit (at least in some states!) @Everyone else: Sigh... First of all, there really aren't any unreached people groups left from what I've read. Yes, some have "heard" more than others, and some are pretty remote. Does that mean I don't believe in missions? NO!!! I whole-heartedly believe we need to go out. But, as others have said, we also need to be "missionary-minded" at home. BOTH are necessary. I think most of you know that my church struggles with many of these issues on a daily basis, as we're a "mission church" located in the inner city. We bring the Gospel to the pimps, prostitutes, drug addicts, sex offenders, and homeless. God is changing lives in these people, as much as He is using "formal" missionaries overseas. And we have other churches who invest heavily into our program. We have volunteers bring food after the service every Saturday evening, we have churches donate school supplies/bookbags we pass out in August, we have beuticians come and give free haircuts on a regular basis. We pass out food, sleeping bags, and tents to the homeless. We do what we can. AND WE NEED MONEY TO DO THIS!!! Our church gets about half what we need through the offering, the rest comes from outside this church. Yet our pastor preaches that the neighborhood members should be tithing, because 1) God expects his people to give a tithe and 2) the need to "invest" in "their" ministry, to take ownership of it. @Embassy and Seeking: You have both made some awsome points! I wish I had time to sit down and read through carefully, but there's too much, and not enough time. Either way, I think your hearts are where they belong...full of compassion for the lost. Last of all, about power windows, while I understand the point behind what Steve is saying, do you know how difficult it is NOT to get power windows now-a-days? They're pretty much standard. It's like trying to get a car without air condition; they simply don't exist anymore!
I am of this mindset: If God knows what is going to happen, then God's Will will ALWAYS happen. We all have a purpose in God's kingdom, but even when we choose against God's Will, He will have His Purpose fulfilled. It just may not happen the way we think it should or when, but it will be done.
Yes, this is true... in the USA. There are other countries, however, where it is not. And yes, I was oversimplifying the argument, but the point remains. We all have a heck of a lot more than we "need."
Not in that passage it doesn't. It doesn't actually say that in any passage. We are commanded to preach the Gospel many places. Preaching the Gospel isn't about building a church or giving someone a Bible. While those things are good they are beside the point. Nature can lead people to seek out God, but it doesn't reveal the Gospel. The Bible says that all stand condemned without Jesus.
And, yet, in Hebrews, it is noted that men and women found favor with God. How did a murderer like Moses get the right to appear on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus, when Jesus had not yet been known to him accept as a promise and had not yet died for the sins of men? Certainly Moses had broken the law and he even chose to disobey God directly by hitting the rock instead of speaking to it.
Again, God doesn't need anything from us. If I believed He did, He wouldn't be a God worth serving. He can do it without us. Is that the preferred method? No. But He can/does. I also didn't mean that building a church or giving out Bibles = preaching the gospel. I was giving common examples of missionary activities. I was talking about missions in general, you see. But if you'd like to continue to nit pick points I'm not making and ignoring the points I am, then by all means, do so without my further involvement.
From what I saw on that chart, it is not that they are not reached, but they are not saturated. Seeds were planted and in some of those places, a Christian would be jailed or killed before having much effect. Sending people and money is not going to make it happen in many of those places; it will take God to open them up.
That was my understanding, too, Seeking, and why I made my original statement. But I HAVE been known to be wrong !
It is a bit left-handed, but you are saying that all are condemned who would have no knowledge of the Gospel. Moses died before Jesus' sacrifice and yet there he was with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration. So, how does a condemned sinner, who could not been saved yet, get to stand with Jesus in spiritual form unless he actually was already saved?
