Spanking Children - California

I am not completely against government, it has a place but not in the home. They cross the line when they try to tell parents what they can and can't do with their children, in regards to raising them. Again, if a parent is abusive, it is not going to stop them from hurting their child. Abuse has been against the law before this possible law ever came up and it still will be if it fails. They are completely missing the point and trying to attack it from the wrong side of the fence.
Patty

 

I find it sad that they would punish parents for up to 1 year in prison and a fine of $1,000 for spanking when a female teacher from Florida has a sexual relationship with a 14 year old middle school student and gets only house arrest.

What does this say about the state of things in this country? Something is seriously messed up.

 

I agree with timkelmom.

 

Here's another thought. While I strongly oppose this law and any other like it, I find it interetesting that people feel so passionately about the government interfering with the discipline of their children, but they are perfectly fine with letting the government raise their children, feed their children, educate their children, or telling them what rights they have about their own bodies.

I don't mean anyone specifically on here, just people in general.

 

If social services (or any other idiotic government agency) would have the nerve to set foot on MY property and tell ME what to do with MY child---I can promise you the stink I would raise would be on every news station in the world. When are they gonna let people alone and worry about the real problems in this world??? I betcha you NEVER see social services or any other dumb agency checking on soldiers' (the ones serving in Irag and overseas) families to see if they could do anything to HELP the parents that are raising the kids by themselves......They really need to get a life and do something useful for a change!!!

 

This thread is so "right on!" The issue is about more than spanking: it's about who has the privilege of raising our children.

 

I agree.
Patty

 

Well, I guess all of this is a part of a grand scheme to indoctrinate our children to human secularism.

 

They are trying to squeeze it in however they can.
Patty

 

Honestly it scares me! There is a distinct difference between a spank (swat, pad, etc...) and beating. I was abused as a child. I walked around with one of my moms DH's names black and blued on my backside. From my legs on up to my back. That to me is ABUSE.
A spanking is not abuse.
I have spanked. Some days they still do recieve a spank. They are forwarned and will typically adjust their behavior before it gets to that point now.

It scares me because there are people out there who beat the heck out of kids and nothing happens to them while big brother and every body else in the world is concerned that you spanked your child and is ready to call DCFS on you if you even hint that you might spank your child.

 

Amen!

A friend of mine knew for a fact that a little foster boy, about 5, that lived with an in-law was being terribly abused. She called Children's Services. They came out and talked for about an hour and then left. NOthing came of it. Sadly, the state had been called about this several times by different people---a few who actually lived in the same house. Nothing was ever done. The kid no longer lives there but that isn't because the state intervened.

 

I am interested to see how Sally Lieber pieces this together. She needs to define spanking and find a way to enforce it.

Sally Lieber said, "I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child. Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?"

She is trying to label a spank as a beating. In order to do this she has to redefine a beating as well if she plans on saying that a swat on the tushy is a beating. Those who have been beat clearly know what a beating is. This lady is going to have her work cut out.
Patty

 

Patty, I hope you're right, but I don't think you are. There's an "anti-spaking" movement in this country, and I believe it is gaining momentum. This is already law in other countries, and I think it's only a matter of time before it becomes law here, too.

 

Unfortunately, I think you're right Jackie. Spanking is no longer considered a reasonable punishment for a huge population of people.

When I was in college, my Exceptional Children class professor was constantly lecturing on how horrible spanking is. I'm sure that view is taught even more now.

There are certainly other ways to discipline. At our house the rule is to use what works. If taking away priviledges works, we do that. But sometimes a spanking is needed.

 

I still think it going to be interesting to see how it pans out. They have to enforce it. Their are a lot of laws that go by the wayside because they can't be enforced or minimally enforced. There are cases of spankings that have been labeled as abuse but by the time law enforcement can intervene or CPS, charges or the investigation is dropped because in order to charge a person, there has to be evidence. Usually they can't find evidence for a spanking. They have to prove damages have accured. If they can find damage, then maybe the parents should be charged because it would be true abuse, in my opinion.
In the city over, a lady was on Oprah or Montel, a few years back. The show was about spanking. A ladies 14 year old son kept coming home late so she paddles his tush with a paddle. The school told the children to call 911 if the parents spank them. Well, the boy did. They came out and arrested the mom. When CPS finally arrived to the department, they took the boy to the hospital and gave the boy a strip search, they checked genitals and all , to make sure the boy wasn't sexually abused. The doctor found no abuse and any redness was diminished by the time this came about. So, basically there was no evidence. Charges where dropped and the mom was released. When asked if she would ever spank her son again by the show host, she said, "You bet! If he's going to live in my house it will be by my rules."
So even if a law passes, it has to be enforced and the situation above doesn't happen often, not that is alright. Most officers, not all, regardless of what the news says, have level heads.
If an officer responds to a call of abuse, regardless of age of the person being abused, it is the officers choice to arrest or not arrest according to the evidence. Charges do not have to be pressed by the victim, it is the officers call. If a person presses charges without evidence, the burden of proof rests on their shoulders. The officers I have known through school, and granted it isn't all of them, spank there own children. There are a few high and mighty officers, like this Leslie lady who is trying to pass this law, that try to pull what the officer did with the lady in the city over. Usually it is the younger, fresh out of the academy officers. The officers who have been on the streets for years fighting crime, drugs, abuse, murders come to a point where they learn to pick and choose their battles. An officer can be reprimanded for waisting the cities time and money.

The way I view it is:
I think this law would stink if it passes, I do not believe the government has any right to pass the gates of my dwelling, but if it passes, they still have to prove a crime was commited. Many Californians know just how often true criminals are released because of the way the California Judicial System works. It is warped.
All we can do is pray, raise our children to know that a spanking is a blessing when done correctly and write our government as to how we feel about it.
I still think that there is a lot to carrying this out, even if it passes. When I think about it, there are thousands of truly abused children still in the home because California requires evidence. That is what stinks.
Patty

 

Here's the thing, though. The mother admitted that she DID spank the boy, and would do so again. And yes, I agree with what she did and don't consider it at all abusive. BUT if this law was passed and 911 was called, it doesn't matter if any "damage" was done or not. If they interview the kid and the kid says "Mom hits me sometimes", the parent could be fined, jailed, loose the kids, etc. Whether there was physical evidence or not.

Plus we won't mention kids that are angry with their parents and make things up, just because they would be "happier" living with at their friend's house (because their parents don't give a hoot about disciplining kids and doesn't have any rules, etc.), or because her boyfriend's mom is "cool" and will let her move in, etc.

 

That's what's scary about this to me---the kids that know good and well an adult has no way to discipline!

Kids already are getting out of control, if you keep taking away disipline measures, then how will they learn right from wrong, if adults have no rights?!

 

The boy calling 911 on his mom was a shameful act but I do not think it is the norm, not yet anyways. I do not think to many children under 4 years of age are going to call 911, although anything is possible now a days. I have seen and heard of some stranger things and yes, the older children can call for the younger ones and many other things can come of it. We live in scary times but God is still bigger then these problems we have here on earth.

It will be ashame if it passes because as I said in another post, this lady is trying to stop abuse from the wrong side of the fence but the Republicans who are against it do give me hope. I do not ever want to give up on that. That is something nobody can take away.
If I give up hope, regardless of the law passing or not passing, then they have won. I try not to give people that much authority over my life.

I root for the mom who had the courage to stand up for what was right. That was a gutsy lady.
I liked her!
She wasn't going to allow the government to dictate how she was going to raise her child, law or no law. I only pray that all parents have the same gumption to stand up for what is right if the time ever comes.
It sure taught her son a lesson. He said he would never call 911 again. He realized that he not only hurt his mom, he embarrassed the pants of himself, literally.:lol:
Patty

 

I had a foster daughter once who was taken into care at the age of 8 because she told the guidance counselor at school that her father had raped her. Our pastor and his wife were foster parents and they had a little girl whose step father had molested her. I think she was 9. Anyway the two girls knew each other and were friends. On the day we went to court the lawyer came to talk to our foster daughter before the case was called and the next thing I know I am being told I can go home. And they said the little girl would be going home with her parents. She told the lawyer that she and the other little girl had been talking and thought they could go live together if they told the same story. The other little girl had been molested but ours lied. Her father had been arrested and gone through all that nonsense because the girls lied to the school counselor. I have heard people say kids can't make up some of the abuse stories but if they have heard it from a friend they know what to say and a persons reputation can be ruined because of it. I have always wondered if that poor father was ever able to get over what his daughter did to him. I was thinking about kids calling social services over spankings and just remembered those little girls.

 

The older children who are old enough to understand just might,simply because they are already doing it now without a law. Sadly, it will be nothing new.
Patty