Here's an update: After she came a second time to verify I had cleared the hallway, she said she'd have to come again. At that point I figured enough was enough. I contacted two different attorneys. One said I could deny her further entry any time I wished (in other words, I wasn't obligated to continue letting her in just because I did so previously). The other attorney was more aggressive and simply said "You're done. Don't speak to her, don't sign anything. Just tell her you're done and go on living your life." So, I decided that I'd tell her she's not welcome back the next time she called. Well, today, exactly 4 weeks after her initial visit, she FINALLY contacted my husband. Although he expressed his disgust, etc. for some reason he let her believe that it was o.k. to visit the house one more time if she'd leave us alone after that. I think that she tried to make it sound that it would be that simple. I tried to tell my husband that these people are full of bull. With her "procedural mindset" there's no way she could guarantee that she wouldn't want to come back again. Even the second attorney I spoke with said that the more you let them intrude, the more stuff they'll find to pin on you. I pointed out to my husband how deceitful and sneaky these people are by reminding him of the following incident: When she told me she'd be back a third time within 2-3 weeks after her second visit, (and I was just playing along at that point) I asked her if she would call ahead or if it would be a surprise visit, adding that I wanted to know because there's no guarantee we'd be in town. She said, "Oh no. No surprises. I'll call you." Well, LESS than two weeks later, I am literally pulling out of the driveway when she pulls up. I told her, "Sorry, I'm leaving" and she said "Oh, I just forgot to have you sign this form about contacting the kids' doctor." I told her I had no time to read and understand it so I wouldn't sign it and I also told her I had contacted an attorney. Well, when she spoke with my husband today, she told him that she had wanted to see the house that day. What?!? I thought "no surprise visits"!?!? So, I told my DH that that is how truthful and fair they are. Shortly after she spoke with my husband today, she called me. Even though my husband would've preferred that I just agree to another visit, I could not tolerate not standing up for myself and my family's sanctity. So, I immediately told her she was not welcome back. I told her she needs to refer to "Walsh vs. Erie County" out of Toledo, Ohio to see where the law stands on cluttered houses. Then--and I probably opened up a can of worms--I proceeded to tell her exactly what I thought of some of her comments, how her intrusions have done nothing but cause problems (such as delaying my and my daughters dental care for a whole week, had to put off fixing my DD's glasses for a whole week and that my boys were traumatized by having to sleep at the neighbors that one night), how her department is wasting taxpayer money harassing decent mothers, etc. I was NOT screaming or anything, but I was definitely spitting out these arrows of truth without hesitation. I then told her if she felt she needed to get a warrant or court order to come back, that it would be in violation of both the 4th and 14th amendments to lie to obtain one. I told her that withholding pertinent information is the same as lying and that if she shows up with a warrant, I'd surely research how she obtained it, and if I found out she did NOT say that she's already been here twice and that we are moving in three weeks, that I'd "pursue it". She then gave her calm, learned-in-training response of, "Well, you certainly can pursue anything you feel you need to. . ." Towards the end of my rant, I said "You need to leave me alone so I can adequately and lovingly take care of my family the way I have been. I have appointments to take care of, bills to take care of, car repairs to take care of and get packed up within 3 weeks. Please leave me alone so I can take care of my family and get us moved. And please leave us alone so my kids can spend their remaining three weeks here playing in peace with their Ohio friends that they've known their whole lives." She then asked for my attorney's name. Now, I actually haven't hired him yet, so I simply said, I'll contact my attorney if I feel the need to. At that point I said, "Well, my attorney has advised me not to talk to you any more, so good-bye." And I hung up. So. . . . . I am now wondering if she'll show up with a warrant. The one attorney said that judges pretty much give them whatever they ask for and they can twist words in such a way to make it sound like a reasonable request. But--he also added that when people mention attorneys and are obviously aware of their rights and the situation is not really a big deal, they often just go away. Gee, that would be great, but I had to open my big mouth and vent. I don't know what possessed me to do it. Even my DH said, "Why couldn't you wait and just write it in a letter later?" So, will she pursue a warrant just to get back at me?? Also, when she spoke with my DH, she threw around words like "contacting the prosecutor" in the event we don't allow her back. Well, that could just be part of their intimidation tactics. I mean, if I haven't done anything criminal how can the prosecutor come after me? I sure hope that by "switching gears" and deciding to not let her in again voluntarily, that it's not considered a form of obstructing justice, but I would think that between the TWO attorneys, one of them would have warned me if that was the case. (I think it's only obstructing justice if I don't respect the warrant.) My DH is also concerned that they could now tell me I can't go to Michigan until the case is closed, but again, if I've done nothing criminal I can't see how they could do that (???). My DH also is concerned that now we might have to actually hire an attorney and we don't have the money. Well, again, if I haven't done anything criminal then why would I need an attorney? If we were staying here, we might need one to nip the harassment in the bud, but since we are moving, we'll just simply leave. (I had contacted Legal Aide but they told me that since I haven't been charged with anything, they couldn't help me. So, I guess if they would be nasty enough to drum up something to charge me with, I could then turn to Legal Aide!!) MOST IMPORTANTLY, however, is the fear that they'd try to say the kids can't be here and have them removed. But--after thinking about it, I just can't see how she could do that (unless she totally lied to such an extent that it would be pure evil) because the house is currently at least as "good" as it was when she o.k.'d the kids to come home from my mom's, and maybe it's a bit better. So, if she shows up with a warrant and I have to let her in, what can she say? She will have to concede that it's time to wrap this up because if she says anything about the kids being in danger, she will be admitting that she allowed them to stay in a dangerous situation for the past three weeks because the house is the same or better as it was at that time. If she tries to bring in the "mold in the basement" issue, then again, she's admitting that she was willing to let them remain in a hazardous situation in the weeks prior to now and that would indicate that she did not properly do her job. So she either has to concede that it's over or that she did not properly protect the children (oh, gag. . . ) I am wondering if I'm required to give her "my" attorney's name. Perhaps there's a procedural rule that once an attorney is mentioned, they have to use the attorney as a go-between(???). Ugh. . .I dunno. . . I just hope that the judge will not issue a warrant. I cannot leave for Michigan until Saturday, and believe-you-me, I would certainly consider not coming back for awhile and I don't care what loose ends I'd leave behind. I'd just tell her "We've moved." Unfortunately, the attorney said they can obtain warrants pretty quickly so if she's going to show up it'll probably be either tomorrow or Friday. I really don't care as long as it doesn't throw a monkey-wrench into the trip. And if it would, wouldn't that just take the cake??? People who claim to be concerned about the welfare of kids and then prevent them from being together with their father!!! Oh, geez, I sure hope this works out. SAY A PRAYER FOR US!!
I hope that you can make it through these next weeks without incident and that you can start a new life in Mi. Look at it all as out with the old and in with the new. Leave this mess all behind you and knock the dust from your shoes when you leave town. I will praying for you to have peace, and comfort during this stressful time. That you will have God's wisdom, and grace poured out upon you. That you will discover and heed any life lessons that He intended for you in all of this. That you will then walk with the added strength, courage and understanding, that He intended for you to gain in this trial.
HUGS and prayers. Praying that the next few weeks go by uneventfully and you get moved without incident.
That ssw had some interesting choices of words, like contact the prosecutor. For what? Exercising your constitutional rights? I will keep you and your family in my prayers. ((((hugs))))
Good for you for standing up for yourself! I'm sure she didn't expect that! I can't imagine, even if you did hire a lawyer, that they would talk to her. Isn't there attny/ client privilege?
I think you are doing everything right. I just have this feeling you wouldn't hear anything back from them again. Just in case they decide to come try your hardest to keep everything as clean as possible, have the kids help if you need too. Good luck.
A thought just occured to me: by deliberately not giving her the name of "my" attorney, and then hanging up before she could get a word in edgewise, could it be considered "obstructing justice"!?! Oh geez, I hope I didn't just give them something to formally charge me with!! I called the attorney's office just to ask them if that would be the case and am waiting for a call back.
Praying for you. GOOD FOR YOU in not letting her in again! She's trying to divide you and your husband; DON'T LET HER!!! She's trying to intimidate you; again, DON'T LET HER!!! If she comes again WITHOUT a warrant, CALL THE ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY! Hand the phone OUT THE DOOR and let him talk with her. You do NOT have to give her his name right now. It probably would have been better if you hadn't gone off on her, but don't worry about that now. Just get your house as neat as possible. Has she yet given you SPECIFIC "charges"? I know charges isn't the right word, but what exactly are they investigating? If physical abuse is one, then I WOULD take the kids to the doctor and have him sign something that says he could see no evidence of abuse. Praying for you!!!
(((( )))) Don't let your imagination run away! If she really needed the name of the atty should would have called back. What are they going to charge you with? Being busy, don't have time to chat on the phone"! Take a deep breath you did fine and you aren't obstructing justice, what justice? Maybe that is obstructing injustice? Have they ever put their demands in writing?
I wouldn't worry much about this. I know when you're in such situations, it's easy to think that you're that person's only thought. The truth is, she probably doesn't give you or your family anywhere near the energy or time that you have given her. Y'all are just a case file, and a fairly pointless one at that. She knows you'll be moving out of state shortly, so it's not like there's a lot of point in bothering much. Unless any of the problems in your house were major, I doubt she'll bother to do much except put the case folder away. She's most likely got a lot of other responsibilities, and y'all won't be Ohio's responsibility in 3 weeks anyway. Can you imagine the amount of paperwork she'd have to do just to start anything new on y'all at this point--- let alone how long it would take for any of it to get through if you brought a lawyer into it? I can bet you that she does, and she won't see the point, considering that y'all will be gone from the state in less than one month.
I have always loved snappy remarks, and it's funny that you bring this up. Last week I thought of one to tuck away to use--maybe--in this situation: "I can't obstruct justice if there is no justice." Maybe I could change that too: "Correction; I'm obstructing injustice." I've also thought of this one, referring to the way they gloat about their right to invade a person's life: "Just because you have the right, doesn't make it right." But I'd better be careful. I have the tendency of getting too flippant too quickly and in this case it could cause more trouble than it's worth!! BTW--No! I have received NOTHING in writing nor have I been shown anything to look at. I must say, though, that another positive thing to come from this is that I swear I must've lost 10 pounds stressing out. (I've already packed away my scale, so I don't know for sure.) But, my stomach is hurting and I sure hope I'm not getting an ulcer because--and I'm not sure, but--I think that after my gastric bypass, an ulcer could be worse than under normal circumstances!
I have to agree. Satan tries to divide us in trials. I think you are holding strong and we are praying for you!!!
Easier said that done, I know, but relax! Don't let this effect your health because your sweet kids need you HEALTHY girlfriend! I didn't know you had surgery. Howz' it going?
This whole mess is making me sick. I hate to see you or any other decent parent going through this. Here they are bugging you while allowing some other poor kid to suffer in a junky home. I am really getting angry about this. I will be praying that this situation works out to YOUR advantage very soon.
I am praying for you, to keep your mouth shut. LOL Just kidding, that would be what I would most need prayer for. Talk about mama bear comming out, with a sassy, hot tounge. If there is good in this, know that I have learned a whole lot about my rights and what to do in a situation like yours. I feel alot more prepared incase something happens to me, and with a neighboor who has threatened us with CPS, and who speaks openly about how homeschooling is wrong, I think we have a good chance of being turned in for something sooner or later.
'Been mostly gone from the Spot for awhile and have been wondering how you are doing. You will emerge from this experience stronger, a little more wary, and much wiser. I pray that the worry and fear of these days will not lessen your long-term enjoyment of life and that very soon you'll be able to concentrate your efforts on home-making and mothering the way you'd like to. Happy moving! Happy new beginnings!
