Welcome! Join our discussions about curriculum, lessons and activities, homeschool resources, family, Christian issues, news, and other topics relevant to homeschooling.  


Go Back   Homeschool Spot > Homeschool Spot Forums > Christian Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-03-2009, 05:33 AM
homeschooler06's Avatar
homeschooler06 homeschooler06 is offline
Homeschool Spot Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: back on the east coast of the good ole US of A
Posts: 2,470
Can a church get sued?

Okay so I was talking to a friend the other day about what has just happened in our state. We are one step away from having gay marriages in our state. Her pastor has already said that he will refuse to marry same s** couples. He also doesn't marry couples who had a divorce in the past.
So if the actually goes thru and a same s** couples happens to go into a church and on that Sunday the preacher decided to talk about that lifestyle bing a sin, can that couple sue the church for discrimination?
Is this going to lead to changes in churches now? Like there are changes in the schools?
Personally I wouldn't understand why a same s** couple would want to attend church because 'DUH' Churches are against this lifestyle. At least all the ones I have been too.
__________________
School is closed for the year. Hiking, camping, playing in the waves, visiting grandparents is what we are up to until Labor Day weekend.
Reply With Quote

 
  #2  
Old 05-03-2009, 06:25 AM
eyeofthestorm eyeofthestorm is offline
Homeschool Spot Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Texas, SW of Dallas
Posts: 1,020
I'm no attorney, but here's what I think.

Can a church get sued? I think in our society - anyone or any entity can be sued in court. Whether the suit has merit or not, whether the judge throws it out, whether the plaintiff loses, whether insurance companies insist on their clients settling...those are all separate issues.

I do not believe there would be a basis for a lawsuit in this instance. This seems (to me, the non-attorney) an issue of free speech and freedom of religion. Your pastor sounds consistent in his practice. He preaches against divorce, and refuses to perform ceremonies for divorcees. If he were to preach against divorce and then marry divorcees, then preach against homos**uality, and then refuse to marry them, someone might make a case for discrimination. The only exception I might see to this would be if the preacher railed against homos**uality in a hateful way - as opposed to a Jesus loves us, and wants us to be happy in lives God created us for way, for example - that might be construed as "hate speech," and while they (whoever) might not get him on that, they might use it against him down the road.

Will this lead to changes? I think so. Changes happen in the schools because they are public entities - government run institutions. Change is planned and engineered in them. Changes in churches take place differently. The members have to move toward change as a group. Sadly, I think this often happens from a herd mentality, rather than independent thought, consideration, reflection, and purposeful prayer.

Oh - and why people want to attend churches that condemn their life choices? Well, two answers to that. One, some people are just contrary. They want others to change to suit them. If a bunch of rabble rousers can get a church to give in, then the rabble rousers have been endorsed, as in, "See! We were right all along!" The other reason is a little more complex, and difficult. I have know individuals who were g*y who attended church. One was a pastor's grown son. He never gave up his church attendance or his faith, but I know he couldn't reconcile what he felt with his faith and with the institution of his church organization. Honestly, that particular denomination had had several clergy spout real vitriol concerning this topic (homos**uality, not g*y marriage). And I'm sorry, there's a big difference between expressing oneself with love and with spite. I could not reconcile these statements and the manner in which they were made with Christian charity, and I'm as straight as it gets. But this guy, he didn't let it stop him from attending. Was he as active as he might have been? No - but he was always there, quietly in the back, worshiping with the Body of Christ.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-03-2009, 07:11 AM
Jackie's Avatar
Jackie Jackie is offline
Homeschool Spot Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 23,836
RIGHT NOW, I don't think he could be sued, but am not sure. In the future, if the "hate crimes" legislation goes through, he could be for just preaching against it. (After some could hear it and do "something" go a gay person simply because of what was said, and therefor, the speaker could be liable ). My understanding is that this has already happening in Canada and in Europe.

At the same time, I could see a gay couple trying to sue a pastor for not marrying them. I do know some churches have been sued because not allowing gay couples to use their building for the "ceremony". These churches pretty much have an "open door" policy for people renting their building, so it was considered "discriminatory". I don't know how the ruling went. So I would GUESS that if a pastor married only church members, he might have more power to say no. (BTW, my parents' pastor won't marry anyone divorced...and that included his own daughter!)

I suggest that another reason a gay person might try to marry in that situation would be to actually force the lawsuit to begin with.
__________________
Jackie

www.freewebs.com/sprite59
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-03-2009, 08:34 AM
Emma's#1fan's Avatar
Emma's#1fan Emma's#1fan is offline
Homeschool Spot Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
Posts: 15,464
It will depend on how your state law is written.

When 8 was going through Cali, if it didn't pass, churches would have to marry homosexuals. This is where my pastor and many other churches said they will be shut down before doing what they believe is wrong.
...and to answer your question, yes the church could be sued for hate crimes and going against the law, at least in Cali they could have been if 8 passed.

So again, it will depend on how your law is written.
__________________
Patty

He is educated who knows how to find out what he doesn't know. - Georg Simmel


Try not to have a good time ... This is supposed to be educational.
- Charles Schulz
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-03-2009, 08:58 AM
chicamarun's Avatar
chicamarun chicamarun is offline
Homeschool Spot Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Purcellville, VA
Posts: 3,206
There is a lot of fighting about things like this - even Dr's REQUIRED to offer abortions (I go to a Catholic OB/GYN and they don't offer it as an option as it is against their beliefs)....

I hope that nothing passes that requires ANY church to do something that is against their beliefs - whatever they are.

NOW - I will tell you that people can sue for anything. For example - we had to stop selling raw goat's milk labeled NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION (totally legal in VA) not because of any law - but because of insurance because some person COULD sue if they ate/drank it and got sick (some people were making soap, yogurt - which pasturizes it anyways). They wouldn't win - but it would be an expensive and long trial. So we had to stop doing something that was completely legal because we live in a "suing society"
__________________
Dana
Crazy Farm Mom
DD19 - Marymount University
DD17, DS15, DD13: I think they are doing schoolwork - at least I HOPE they are but I'm not always 100% sure of WHAT it is....
DFD6 - Kindergarten
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-03-2009, 09:39 AM
momofafew momofafew is offline
Homeschool Spot Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,643
You can sue a church, but not because you do not like their religious beliefs. So you don't have to worry about that.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-03-2009, 09:51 AM
dawninns's Avatar
dawninns dawninns is offline
Homeschool Spot Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie View Post
RIGHT NOW, I don't think he could be sued, but am not sure. In the future, if the "hate crimes" legislation goes through, he could be for just preaching against it. (After some could hear it and do "something" go a gay person simply because of what was said, and therefor, the speaker could be liable ). My understanding is that this has already happening in Canada and in Europe.
I don't recall anything like that happening up here. Churches do have special protection of their own after all under freedom of religion considerations. If you hear someone make claims of stuff happening in Canada make sure to ask for sources because I've found that some like to hold Canada up as a boogeyman and manufacture some downright bizarre claims about us.

Regardless, I'm a firm believer that state marriages should be open to gay couples and that churches should have every right to refuse to perform marriage ceremonies for whatever reason. Anyone can go get their license but that doesn't mean a couple has any right to expect anyone will give them a wedding ceremony. It's an easy line to draw but gets complicated when churches try to dominate and claim state issues (like marriage) or states try to dictate church behaviour.
__________________
My blog...Day by Day Discoveries

Mom to Catherine (15), Harry (12) and Lauchie (2).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-03-2009, 10:07 AM
sixcloar's Avatar
sixcloar sixcloar is offline
Homeschool Spot Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,013
Quote:
Churches do have special protection of their own after all under freedom of religion considerations.
Right now they do here, but new legislation could change much of our religious freedom.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-03-2009, 12:23 PM
KrisRV's Avatar
KrisRV KrisRV is offline
Homeschool Spot Addict
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: some where between south and north
Posts: 19,786
I think we all are in for alot of changes, same sex marriage is just the mild thing we will see...


Yes, anyone or anything can be sue, weather it goes all the way and thats work thats up to judge and jury to tell.
__________________
Kris RV





A women is like a tea bag you never know how strong she is until she gets into hot water. Quote: By Eleanor Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-03-2009, 12:31 PM
homeschooler06's Avatar
homeschooler06 homeschooler06 is offline
Homeschool Spot Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: back on the east coast of the good ole US of A
Posts: 2,470
I think I like my 'world' as is. As I mentioned in another post Unfortatally that isn't going to happen we have to face the real world. I just hope it's not too corupt for when my children grew up.
As for the sue happy world, it's a reason why my dad quit helping people and why he has been trying to get me to quit helping others. He worries about the garden that I am helping with.
__________________
School is closed for the year. Hiking, camping, playing in the waves, visiting grandparents is what we are up to until Labor Day weekend.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Homeschool Top Sites - Best Homeschool Sites on the Internet


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:53 PM.


Teacher Big Books - Classroom Pocket Charts - A to Z Teacher Stuff - Homeschool Spot - Teacher Deals Discounts
Little Giraffes Teaching Ideas - Teacher Forums - Download Teacher eBooks - A to Z Phonics

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.