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Actressdancer
11-07-2007, 03:13 PM
Aren't you glad that our public school system is keeping society safe from all that evil hugging!?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071106/ap_on_fe_st/odd_detention_for_hugging

Jackie
11-07-2007, 03:17 PM
WELL, I should SAY SO!!! We can't allow HUGGING at school! Only s-x is permitted!!! :roll:

Gosh!!! I often drop Carl off in the morning, and of course he kisses me when he gets out of the car. Do you think they might suspend him, too?

4kidsmom
11-07-2007, 03:49 PM
My 11 almost 12 years old ds would be kicked out!!! This is unbelievable!!!!!!!

Actressdancer
11-07-2007, 04:30 PM
Before anyone thinks that I endorse PDA in school: My 16yo niece recently got an after school suspension for kissing another student at bus loading. I agree with that. I think a 'no kissing' rule is perfectly reasonable in school. But hugging, imo, is a whole different ball of wax.

Jackie
11-07-2007, 04:56 PM
I agree, Amie! Kissing is on a completely different level. I had lots of "guy friends", and I would hug them on occasion, but it was no different for me than patting them on the shoulder. Heck, yesterday I visited the funeral of a 98yo woman. She had been a friend of my parents', and I had dated her son, though I've probably only seen him maybe four or five times in the last 15 years. You better believe I hugged him, and I sure don't feel there was anything inappropriate in doing it!

I wonder if you can hold hands?

Ava Rose
11-07-2007, 05:29 PM
LOL...I was coming on now to post the same story!

I agree with you ladies. This is nuts! Now your kids will be totally confused with what is and is not proper affection.

MonkeyMamma
11-07-2007, 05:48 PM
The morons in charge of the public schools should be worrying about much bigger problems. Like why kids that graduate can't read or why there is such a large amount of perverts allowed to teach in the classroom or any other insane number of problems facing american schools today.

This is just another example of why our schools suck.

Actressdancer
11-07-2007, 06:02 PM
This is just another example of why our schools suck.

Wonderfully put! I couldn't agree more.

sevenwhiskers
11-07-2007, 06:02 PM
good grief. that's ridiculous -- she was giving her GIRL friends a hug goodbye, not making out with some boy! :roll:

Actressdancer
11-07-2007, 06:04 PM
good grief. that's ridiculous -- she was giving her GIRL friends a hug goodbye, not making out with some boy! :roll:

I was careful not to make note of the gender issue here. You see, my niece got in trouble for kissing a girl. Yes, she is a lesbian. Boy or girl, imo, it makes no difference. Mental health experts agree that the average person needs 5 hugs a day to stay healthy. Our nature is mostly to hug and touch and make contact. And it has nothing to do with sexuality (for the most part).

sevenwhiskers
11-07-2007, 06:16 PM
I was careful not to make note of the gender issue here. You see, my niece got in trouble for kissing a girl. Yes, she is a lesbian. Boy or girl, imo, it makes no difference. Mental health experts agree that the average person needs 5 hugs a day to stay healthy. Our nature is mostly to hug and touch and make contact. And it has nothing to do with sexuality (for the most part).

yipes, sorry about that -- i scrolled the replies quick and looking back at yours now, mine looks kinda...well y'know - i didn't intend it to be though! and i could rewrite what i said to this:

"good grief. that's ridiculous -- she was giving her good friends a hug goodbye, not making out with someone!"

better? :D

Hoosier Mama
11-07-2007, 07:48 PM
My ds would be expelled! He is a big hugger!! LOL

So ridiculous.....what do you even say to that?

Jackie
11-07-2007, 09:02 PM
OK, Carl and I discussed it tonight, and he is actually taking the school's side. He says, first of all, that we may very well not have ALL the story. Which, of course, you know. Also, sometimes things have gotten so out of hand that, when they have to crack down on something stupid like this, the kids "need to be intelligent enough" to stop, because the teachers/administration no longer has the patience for it. Also, chances are, she KNEW the rules and what would happen, but did it anyway.

Again, I think it's stupid, but just wanted to give you the perspective of a high school teacher in a school that has administrators that don't back up teachers and where things are out of control.

Hoosier Mama
11-07-2007, 09:28 PM
I can see his point. Isn't there always more to a story??

It just SOUNDS so ridiculous! :)

Actressdancer
11-07-2007, 11:05 PM
I guess I can honestly say that I don't care how much more there is to the story. Even after I have mentally taken this scenario to any possible extreme. If my child is ever in a position to be punished for hugging a friend they are in the wrong position.

MonkeyMamma
11-08-2007, 12:16 AM
If my child is ever in a position to be punished for hugging a friend they are in the wrong position.

I agree completely. The rule itself is moronic. That is what I have the problem with. No matter what the story is the fact that two friends can not hug each other is absurd.

And ps advocates are concerned that hs'ers aren't exposed to the real world. Where in the real world will you get punished for hugging a friend?:roll:

hmsclmommyto2
11-08-2007, 12:30 AM
I agree that this is a ridiculous rule. But, it's not new. When I was in 9th grade, my Math teacher got on my case about hugging my friends. Math was my 1st hour class and a few of my friends were in 8th grade (it was a small school with k-12 in the same building). My Math class was in the Jr High section of the building. So, before class I hang out in the hall with my friends (8th & 9th graders). One day before class we gave each other hugs & my teacher saw it. He actually tried to tell me that not only was I not to hug my friends, but that I technically wasn't allowed to talk to them in the hall before class (the ones still in 8th grade) and that he'd been allowing me to anyway. He told me if I did it again, he wouldn't allow me to talk to them anymore either. We ended up in an arguement in class & he eventually sent me to the principal's office. All because of a HUG!
It's pathetic. There are so many serious problems in the public schools & they focus on small inconsequential things instead.

sevenwhiskers
11-08-2007, 06:02 AM
the kids "need to be intelligent enough" to stop, because the teachers/administration no longer has the patience for it. Also, chances are, she KNEW the rules and what would happen, but did it anyway.



maybe she was "intelligent enough" to view a hug between friends as just that - a hug between friends.. and not as what is normally known as a "display of affection" ... know what i mean? the term "PDA" generally brings to mind affection that is romantic or sexual in nature ... rules like these are meant to curb tonsil hockey in the hallways - which i completely agree with -- and maybe this young lady just interpreted the rule in the way that most normally would.....if i saw that rule written in a school handbook and my dd asked me if she could hug a friend goodbye at the end of the day, i'd have said "of course, it's not for that" without any hesitation --- because that's what is generally understood by it... know what i mean? maybe this girl just made the normal assumptions that people do with that type of rule...assumed it was meant to cover the romantic/sexual type stuff and not just a normal hug to a friend.....

is your other half a teacher? that's how i'm reading your post (please correct me if i'm wrong!) --- i *do* understand what he's saying there, and i don't envy him having to work in an environment where they aren't supported by administration (which i understand as well - i have a friend who teaches special education and i've heard many many stories from her that demonstrate that lack of support) .

Jackie
11-08-2007, 06:37 AM
Yes, he is a teacher. He teaches "Integrated Algebra". That's a class taught to students that have already flunked Algebra II (usually because the have "passed" Algebra I with a "D", and have absolutely no idea what they're doing) but still need another math credit to graduate. The real "cream of the crop", so to speak. It's a job *I* certainly wouldn't want!!! (And it helps reaffirm our decision to homeschool! When people talk about the local schools, HE can speak with authority about them!)

Jackie
11-08-2007, 06:53 AM
Unfortunately, the "real world" IS becoming more unnaccepting of people showing "friendly" forms of affection, such as hugging. Hug the wrong person, and it's "sexual harrasment". However, inappropriate affection (at least in public!) no one says anything about.

I have had people get on my case twice for hugging, both when I was college-age. Both were church-related. One time, I was at a large church meeting, and a friend from high school I hadn't seen in YEARS showed up. I gave him (yes, a guy!) a hug, we spoke, and that was it. A guy from my small group asked, "Who was that?" "An old friend," I told him. He said, "Well, I should HOPE SO!!!" Took me back a bit, but many of the people at this place came originally from a rather promiscuous life-style, so maybe they were more sensitive.

The second time was when a new ministry was trying to get started on Campus. There were about three guys renting a house, which was being used as a base. My roommate had connections with one of the guys (went to high school with him...?). So I baked some bread and took over there. While I was there, another guy came in, who was part of the campus ministry I belonged to, but he lived out of town and wasn't around much. I didn't know he was back in town, and we hugged. Later that day, Charlie came to me and asked that I talk to the one guy in charge of the new people, and explain how we were "just friends". I guess after I left, he spole to Charlie about the appropriate way to "treat a Sister". GEESH!!!

Actressdancer
11-08-2007, 08:01 AM
Unfortunately, the "real world" IS becoming more unnaccepting of people showing "friendly" forms of affection, such as hugging. Hug the wrong person, and it's "sexual harrasment". However, inappropriate affection (at least in public!) no one says anything about.

I have had people get on my case twice for hugging, both when I was college-age. Both were church-related. One time, I was at a large church meeting, and a friend from high school I hadn't seen in YEARS showed up. I gave him (yes, a guy!) a hug, we spoke, and that was it. A guy from my small group asked, "Who was that?" "An old friend," I told him. He said, "Well, I should HOPE SO!!!" Took me back a bit, but many of the people at this place came originally from a rather promiscuous life-style, so maybe they were more sensitive.

The second time was when a new ministry was trying to get started on Campus. There were about three guys renting a house, which was being used as a base. My roommate had connections with one of the guys (went to high school with him...?). So I baked some bread and took over there. While I was there, another guy came in, who was part of the campus ministry I belonged to, but he lived out of town and wasn't around much. I didn't know he was back in town, and we hugged. Later that day, Charlie came to me and asked that I talk to the one guy in charge of the new people, and explain how we were "just friends". I guess after I left, he spole to Charlie about the appropriate way to "treat a Sister". GEESH!!!


Now see, I wouldn't call that "real world" stuff. I'd call it "snobby Christian" stuff.... lol.

Jackie
11-08-2007, 08:26 AM
Yes. Some of them are snobbier than others, lol! Believe me, it didn't stop me from hugging my "guy friends" (OR my girl friends!)

MonkeyMamma
11-08-2007, 10:24 AM
I guess I am old because we never had these rules in my schools growing up. So it is really bizzare and frankly stupid to me. I just have to shake my head in disbelief at some moronic things that go on nowadays.

And Jackie that does sound like snobby christians!! Good gosh!

Flowerchild
11-08-2007, 12:32 PM
I heard about this on the news.

Darn, all this drama over a hug makes me want to revert back to my teenage years and hug people all along the hallways until I am dragged into the principal's office, lectured, kicked out of school, evaluated by a shrink, placed into juvenile detention... Shucks.. I wish I was still a teenage rebel!

If the schools get their way, we will be living in a society that is sterile and free of all beautiful human qualities within 50 years. I guess they will have a hugging museum right next to the tree museum? Golly, I sure hope so!

:roll:

MonkeyMamma
11-08-2007, 12:45 PM
I heard about this on the news.

Darn, all this drama over a hug makes me want to revert back to my teenage years and hug people all along the hallways until I am dragged into the principal's office, lectured, kicked out of school, evaluated by a shrink, placed into juvenile detention... Shucks.. I wish I was still a teenage rebel!

If the schools get their way, we will be living in a society that is sterile and free of all beautiful human qualities within 50 years. I guess they will have a hugging museum right next to the tree museum? Golly, I sure hope so!

:roll:

Flowerchild you must be my long lost sister!

Flowerchild
11-08-2007, 12:49 PM
Wooo hoo!! :cool:

becky
11-08-2007, 02:20 PM
The other day at the Y a man was talking to the girl at the desk, telling her about the company sensitivity training he and others had to attend. They were told they can tell a woman 'Your hair looks nice today.', but they cannot say 'You look nice today.', because it can be misconstrued into harrassment. He was very frustrated by the ridiculous fine differences they were expected to follow.

Jackie
11-08-2007, 02:54 PM
And if Carl has a female student dressed inappropriately, he CANNOT say anything to her, because it could be sexual harassement. He can't even ask another female teacher to say something, because so many of them (the female teachers) will turn on him and treat him as if he's some pervert for "noticing". So basically, a male teacher cannot inforce any dress code when it comes to femal students. The girls know this, and play it to the hilt.

hmsclmommyto2
11-08-2007, 03:14 PM
That is ridiculous! He can't even say "That outfit does not fit the school's dress code policy."? And, sorry to say, but with some of the outfits girls wear you'd have to be blind to not notice, so how can the female teachers hold it against him? Isn't it part of a teacher's job to notice when students are break rules, and to say something about it? It's pathetic how they tie the hands of the teachers, and then the teachers get so much of the blame for the condition the schools are in. I have to say, I do not envy ps teachers.

MonkeyMamma
11-08-2007, 07:34 PM
So Jackie he can't send her to the office??

Jackie
11-08-2007, 08:37 PM
No, because he shouldn't be "noticing".

sevenwhiskers
11-08-2007, 09:01 PM
No, because he shouldn't be "noticing".

so if a male student came in to class wearing a t-shirt with a vulgar logo or something, could he send them? if he could send them for a dress code issue but not send a female student, that's just all messed up.:?

Jackie
11-08-2007, 09:10 PM
He could probably send her for an issue like that, but if her skirt was too short, or her top too low, or her tummy showing, he couldn't. I guess there was trouble with girls wearing thong underwear, and their pants came down low so they were sticking out a awhile back and he couldn't say anything about that. (The girls were letting it show on purpose).

sevenwhiskers
11-08-2007, 09:37 PM
He could probably send her for an issue like that, but if her skirt was too short, or her top too low, or her tummy showing, he couldn't. I guess there was trouble with girls wearing thong underwear, and their pants came down low so they were sticking out a awhile back and he couldn't say anything about that. (The girls were letting it show on purpose).

oh i meant it that way -- i just used a t-shirt for a guy example, since they're not likely to be wearing a micro mini in class...or one would hope not. :lol:

i think it's ridiculous -- it's not sexual harassment to inform a student that their skirt is shorter than the dress code allows...

and oh yeah i know that style...it's still rather popular around here...blech. underwear are called UNDERwear for a reason.

seekingmyLord
11-08-2007, 09:39 PM
I have to remind myself that often when stories are publicized about children, the school officials are legally restrained from giving out details, so I inclined to think we are not given the entire story.

Still, it kind of sends out mixed signals....

Don't hug, but... here's your free condom. :roll:

Jackie
11-08-2007, 09:48 PM
There was a reverse thing just today. The news this morning mentioned a teen in Columbus that was killed by a hit-and-run driver. The accident happened around 3AM, and she was walking "with friends". I told Carl at the time that I felt there was more to this story than it appeared. What was a girl doing walking around at 3 AM on a school night? Not that she "deserved" to get hit, but.... Well, later we learned that she was a young lady that had come to town for some Youth Conference, and it really WAS on the up-and-up. They had gone out after being up talking all night to get some fast food, right up from where they were staying. It was in a part of town where it was fairly safe for a group to do that. But I thought it was interesting how I just jumped to unfair conclusions like that.

Trish
11-08-2007, 09:56 PM
Jackie can I ask a question. If a female student is dressed with a skirt to short or her boobs are hanging out can the principal say anything. I mean if it is a male principal. I was just wondering how they would handle that situation. Curosity killed the cat you know.

I am a big hugger. I would die if someone said I couldn't hug. Randall is the same way. We don't think anything about hugging friends and family. Vicki is also a big hugger. They would expel her the first day.

Jackie
11-08-2007, 10:26 PM
I don't know if the principal can say anything or not. The bottom line is that the kids are in control, and they know it.

sevenwhiskers
11-09-2007, 05:30 AM
aye, it doesn't sound like a very pleasant environment to work in. :|

Trish
11-09-2007, 07:51 AM
Jackie that is sad. I guess that is one more reason to be thankful for homeschooling.

Deena
11-16-2007, 02:33 AM
IT's time for the pendulum to swing back just a little bit---to where teachers can have some control! It was that way when I was teaching---the kids know the teachers can do nothing discipline wise! It's just not right!

kyzg
11-19-2007, 02:56 AM
After reading these posts, I just got this scenario in my head: A girl walks into the classroom with her boobs totally hanging out of her clothing and no one can say anything (or, at least not the teacher!) and then another girl is spotted hugging a friend. Guess which girl gets in trouble for inappropriate behavior!?!?

Whether there's more to the story or not, the fact that PDA has to be such an issue makes me glad to be away from it all.

As for teachers, I sympathize with them for everything from behavior to teach-to-the-test demands and the freedom they've lost to control the curriculum within their own classrooms. It was my stint as a long term sub that led me to HSing and no amount of money could ever get me back in the classroom again.