Spanking

[Vicky]

How do you all feel about spanking?

[OKmom]

My husband and I spank as one method of discipline. However, what works for one child is not always the best deterrant for another child, in my experience.

When we do spank, we talk to them first and explain what they got in trouble for and that they knew the consequence was spanking. They made the choice to disobey and so they should expect their punishment. After a spanking, we always hug them and tell them that we love them and that we don't want to spank them, but we have to discipline them.

We rarely need to spank our son any longer, he usually stays in line. Our daughter is a little more 'stong willed' and spankings aren't quite as effective as they were before. For her, we've found that sending her to her room (or to bed early) is worse than any spanking. (She's extremely nosey and can't stand that she doesn't know what's going on).

[Vicky]

Thanks we were ask that question recently. We used spanking when the kids were little and now that they are older we don't have to use it. They know what is expected of them, they also know how to act. They know if they misbehave in epecially at church, they will be punished. We have taken our ds out and spanked several times when he was younger, now (at 10) he never has to be taken out. The Bible tell us to disipline our children. If we don't we are hurting our childern.
The person who asked me the question couldn't believe I have ever had to spank my kids. She was asking me, how we have got them to always act right. I told her we put our thumb on them and they know how to act.

[OKmom]

It's funny you said that, we recently had a similar discussion at church. Our children (now 3 & 5) are finally good at sitting quietly in church. I bring a notebook for each and some crayons and they're content to sit quietly until church service is over.

A friend asked me how we got "so lucky" having children that could sit through church. I had to laugh! I told her that we spend the last several years TEACHING them that sitting quietly and participating in church was what was expected of them. If I had a nickle for everytime I had to take one (or both) out to get them quiet......

I agree with you, it's our responsibility to discipline our children and lead them in right direction. Proverbs 22:6 is one of my favorite passages.

[Vicky]

I don't want to offend you or anyone else. But I beleive that when children leave the nursery they should also leave the snacks and the coloring/ wirting also. When you come into worship you should have only your Bible and a highlighter to mark the passages with. You should also not move nor should you talk. Also you are to never ever run nor play in the church house, it's God's house and you should have nothing but the up most respect for it. Children should be taught this and when they do not treat it like a place of worship then they should be delt with. We were brought up doing these things and now we are applying them to our children. We both were brought up with very strict rules for church and other places. My parents only spanked me very few times and most of the times that I did get a spanking it was because of the way I acted in church, like running, playing, or sleeping. I was not a perfect angel but I learned the hard way how to act, so have my children. Again I am sorry if I have offended anyone.
Proverbs 29:15 says: The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother.
Proverbs 20:11 says: Even a child is known by his actions, by whether his conduct is pure and right.

[OKmom]

I respect your opinion about the way we are to act in church, and I adhere to many of the same ideas. However....

Both of my children are young enough to go to the nursery, but I've chosen to keep them in the service with me for the purpose of showing them what church is about--not nursery playtime. This being said, they are too young to read (especially the books of the Bible, although they can recite them). My children don't take drinks or snacks in worship service, but I do allow them to color in Bible coloring books, and look at church-based storybooks during services. We are teaching our children how to act appropriately during worship service.

Not to offend anyone, either, but I think sometimes there is an important lesson to teach our children about putting things into perspective. Yes, we should teach them to act responsibly and respect the facilities they are in (just as in any setting: school, stores, friends homes, etc.). I think it's also important to teach our children that the building where we sit to worship is not holy ground. It is a place to worship, just as your home is or anywhere. I heard a speaker once call the church building a "sheep shed" because it is a place for God's sheep to gather in security, but it is not a holy site. If a tornado were to come and wipe it all away, the church would still be alive and well although the church building would be destroyed.

I hope I haven't overstepped, I know we've gotten off of the origianl post. My apologies.

[Brenda]

It's a tough question to ask... I do believe in spanking. HOWEVER, it's not something I do on a regular basis.

Often times when it come down to the need for a spanking, I am quite often upset and I don't like spanking when I'm upset (or angry - whatever the case may be) because there is too much risk for emotions behind the spanking and I fear that I would unintentionally harm a child in doing so.

I have waited for a period of time before I did spank but I have also fore warned whoever that it would be coming and in the end it seems to have been most effective because I'm not angry (or upset) and the child tends to remember it more.

Brenda

[Brooke]

We spank, but only when the parent is calm. When my kids were toddlers we would spank immediately, especially when the child's disobedience has put them in danger (walking to the road after being told not to, etc.). Now the disobedience usually occurs outside the home so the child is told that when we get home they will receive a spanking. I've taken to using a paddle of sorts rather than my hand. For one, my hand and wrists hurt when I spank with my hand, and secondly a friend told me about a study that brought out that God says to use a rod in the Proverbs. The study also talked about the child associating your hand with punishment. That was enough for me to switch....no pun intended :wink: .

Brenda, I completely agree about the emotions needing to be taken care of first, at least if your emotion is anger. I recently spoke with my dad about how he would send us to go find a willow branch for him to use as a switch. He told me that he did that so he would have some cool down time before spanking us. Incidentally, I was 17 the last time I received a spanking. And I deserved it.

[zsmomma]

Our kids are almost 5 and 7 1/2. Now that they are older the only time that they get spanked is if they out right lie to us or put each other or themselves in danger. We have expected from the get go that when we say no that that is the answer. There is none of the "but mom" junk. No means no means no. Our boy (7 1/2) the only thing you have to do or say to him is his name harshly and there is no need for anything else. You have his attention and he obeys. Our 5 yr old (girl) is another story. She is a tad high strung. She has to be told if you do that again you will lose this toy or that toy or whatever and that always works with her. It is a matter of finding what works and doing it.

[Vicky]

I agree when we speak our children's names in a loud way, they know they are in trouble. I have only spanked one time out of anger. When my dd was about 3 or 4 she was caught tearing the pages out of her Bible. Other than that it was usually after we had calmed down. I was given a paddle by my father-in-law when my dd was 18 mo. he told me to use it so she would know the right way to act. I have only used it on the kids a few times. I do used it on the cats on a regular basis. :)
It is good to hear and read that some parents still use spanking. So many times parents try to be a buddy or friend to their children instead of the parent. It sad to see so many kids telling their parents what they are going to do, and the parents letting them do it.
It's one of my pet peeves to see a parent let their child misuse the church. It really goes all through me when I see a child writing on the seats, or climbing on the pews, or rolling on the floor, and the parents just let them, they also leave paper and trash on the floor. To me that is showing very little respect.
I was always taught to treat the church as a place of worship the Lord our God. Your right its not holy ground. But it should be treated with the upmost respect. I have always told my children that we want others to treat our home with respect thats how we are to treat others homes. That includes the Lords house.

[becky]

YOU HIT YOUR CATS WITH A PADDLE? I hope you're kidding.

[g007girl]

I don't want to start a debate, but I'm going to answer your question. I do not agree with spanking. I don't feel that hitting a child is a form of discipline. We are all children of God. Could you see God hitting one of his children because they didn't obey?

As for children sitting in church, I agree that parents must teach their children to behave and respect God's house. I do not like to see children misbehaving in church and not showing respect. Of course children are children and they all misbehave at one point or another, but it's up to the parents to teach them. When my children act up, I take them in the hall and they must sit on my lap until they are ready to behave. My children are allowed to look at books or color during church. I believe it is hard for children to sit still for an hour and listen to speakers. Sometimes I have a hard time sitting still. But they are quiet and they are being exposed to God's word.

I really hope I haven't offended anyone and I don't want to cause contention. I just wanted to give my opinion.

[CrystalB9]

Just adding my two cents - I skimmed over the posts, not fully reading them, but got the jist of what we are talking about.
I did spank my children before my dh's oldest son came to live with us four yrs ago. We were awarded full custody due to his bio mom physically abusing him. At that point in time dh and agreed we would no longer spank. When we did spank it was never out of anger, but due to what this little boy had been threw we choose not to spank any of our children anymore. Time outs and taking privledges away has worked great for our family. I have family members and friends that spank their children and I dont disagree with it, I feel it is your personal choice, do what works best for your family.
There are times when my children are being grounded from their PS2 or whatever and they will ask for a spanking instead!! LOL
So Vicky for our family we dont spank, but again, I feel it is a personal choice and what is best for your family.

[Jackie]

I beileive in spanking, if used properly. I also agree that if you do it when they're younger, you won't need to when they're older. I had to spank my 5YO the other day. Afterward, we talked and all, then I came downstairs to the computer. He came down, crawled into my lap and said in a very small voice, "Mommy, I love you anyway!"

Crystal, I also believe that children who were abused need special discipline. I also would be very hesitant using any kind of physical discipline with them.

G007, God does discipline His children, and sometimes He does it in harsh ways. We just finished reading through Joel, where the prophet was predicting devistation from plagues of locusts. Think of how many times God sent invaders into the country to turn the hearts of the people back to Him. I beleive that a God of love is also a God of discipline. You can't have one without the other, and SOMETIMES love HURTS.

Now, I find the question about coloring books in church interesting. My kids are only present for the Praise and Worship part, then go to their classes. I've never been one to pull children out for P&W, but I also beleive that they can be engaged meaningfully in this part of the service. As far as the sermon goes, I'm not sure. When i read aloud to my children, I will let them color or do a puzzle or stitch while they listen. DH asked me waht's the difference. But at the same time, how will they learn to listen if we give them other things to occupy the time? (I also have trouble with older kids being pulled out during the sermon. Our old church even had the high schoolers leaving!)

[Anonymous]

Vicky you spank your cats too. I sometimes will lightly pop mine with the fly flap. When they sharpen their claws on the couch or the carpet.

I am a Southern Baptist and I agree with Vicky. You must be a Southen Baptist too. Because we are brought up believing that the church is the Lords house and that you do treat it with respect. That means no running or playing inside.

I spank my children because the Lord tells us to in Proverbs. He rebukes us and is very disappointed when we do wrong. We are to teach our children that there is a price to be paid when we disobey. If we don't then they will never understand that when they get into trouble in the world. The world is not going to sweetly talk to them, like mama did. They are going to put them in their place and not in a nice way. Parents that just talk to their children are making a huge mistake that their children will later pay for. Children must be delt with with a loving but serious rebuking just like the Lord our God does with us when we disobey him.

[Brooke]

Just to add to "Guest's" post.....I tell our kids that obedience to parents is the first step in God's design to teach them to obey Him. And when you are a grown up, discipline hurts just as much as spankings did as a child....if not more.

[Lornaabc]

God destroyed the whole world with a flood that is more than spanking.

[LifeLearner]

[quote= most of the times that I did get a spanking it was because of the way I acted in church, like running, playing, or sleeping. I.[/quote]

I can't fathom spanking my toddler for sleeping in church. I often have to wake him up to take him to church, then he has SS, by the time church is halfway over, he's tired. I'm not going to punish him for something that is so natural. Misbehaving, yes. Sleeping, no. Many kids who are in the service aren't "old enough to leave the nursery". More and more parents are choosing to keep their children in the service. My son stays for about half, sometimes more. He's learning well, in a gentle way.
I DO practice spanking when I need to, but for defiant behavior, not for simple teaching moments.
jmho

Glenda

[LifeLearner]

[quote= most of the times that I did get a spanking it was because of the way I acted in church, like running, playing, or sleeping. I.[/quote]

I can't fathom spanking my toddler for sleeping in church. I often have to wake him up to take him to church, then he has SS, by the time church is halfway over, he's tired. I'm not going to punish him for something that is so natural. Misbehaving, yes. Sleeping, no. Many kids who are in the service aren't "old enough to leave the nursery". More and more parents are choosing to keep their children in the service. My son stays for about half, sometimes more. He's learning well, in a gentle way.
I DO practice spanking when I need to, but for defiant behavior, not for simple teaching moments.
jmho

Glenda

[LifeLearner]

[quote=As far as the sermon goes, I'm not sure. When i read aloud to my children, I will let them color or do a puzzle or stitch while they listen. DH asked me waht's the difference. But at the same time, how will they learn to listen if we give them other things to occupy the time? )[/quote]

I hear better if I am doign something. I sit in church and doodle, simply because if my hands aren't busy, my brain doesn't work. It's how i"m built. If I could sit and colour a picture in church 'd learn more than I do. It's far less distracting for me to have my hands busy than not. MAny children are like this too.

Glenda

[LifeLearner]

[quote=
I am a Southern Baptist and I agree with Vicky. You must be a Southen Baptist too. Because we are brought up believing that the church is the Lords house and that you do treat it with respect. That means no running or playing inside.

I.[/quote]
I'm not southern baptist and I was brought up that way. I, too, believe in respecting the church building. But since we have a gym I can hardly say no running in church! LOL The sanctuary is a place of worship and when there is worship going on we are to be reverant and respectful. Once we're in the educational wing - it's no longer the same rules at all.

Glenda

[Jackie]

Glenda, I can honestly remember sitting in a chapel service at a Christian college MANY years ago working on my cross-stitch! Though I DO believe I'd get some strange looks if I tried to do it during the service! I agree; I'd never spank a toddler for sleeping in church. However, I WILL nudge my snoring DH rather hard :roll: !

[LifeLearner]

Glenda, I can honestly remember sitting in a chapel service at a Christian college MANY years ago working on my cross-stitch! Though I DO believe I'd get some strange looks if I tried to do it during the service! I agree; I'd never spank a toddler for sleeping in church. However, I WILL nudge my snoring DH rather hard :roll: !

~~

LOL. thats funny. I wish I dared take cross stitch to church. I know our church would be fine with it, but I'm such a chicken heart!
Brenda will be daring me next thing I know. LOL

[Jackie]

Gives new meaning to the churche's "Ladies' Sewing Circle"! :D

BTW, Glenda, I don't think I've formally "welcomed" you. Please feel "welcomed"!

[Brenda]

Glenda, I would dare you, but I know you would chicken out of it :lol: I triple dog dare you to do it - our church family probably wouldn't say much - some of our senior youth seem to slip through the cracks with text messaging - cross stitch wouldn't grab too much attention (unless of course you poke yourself with the needle and are vocal about it... :lol:

Brenda

[Jackie]

And besides, Glenda, if you do, Brenda will sit right there next to you, working on her knitting!!! (Yes, I'm volunteering her!!!)

[Brooke]

:lol: :lol: :lol: ....I wonder what kind of attitude people in third world countries have about the building they worship in......"no running in the barn, kids, we use it for worship sometimes!"....sorry, just brought about funny images :lol: .

We were to be respectful, but not because of the building we were in, per say, more because of the fact that it would cause problems for others (including our mom :wink: ). Some of these older threads are fun to bring up again, LifeLearner. And welcome from me, too. Unless I've already missed an introductory thread, you'll have to tell us about yourself, family, curriculum, etc. Look forward to getting to know you!

[LifeLearner]

Gives new meaning to the churche's "Ladies' Sewing Circle"! :D

BTW, Glenda, I don't think I've formally "welcomed" you. Please feel "welcomed"!

You may not have formally welcomed me, but somehow I get the feeling you belong in this crazy bag of hammers too.... :D

Thanks! Looking forward to getting to know you. but woudl someone keep Brenda under control please? hahahahaha

[LifeLearner]

:lol: :lol: :lol: ....I wonder what kind of attitude people in third world countries have about the building they worship in......"no running in the barn, kids, we use it for worship sometimes!"....sorry, just brought about funny images :lol: .

We were to be respectful, but not because of the building we were in, per say, more because of the fact that it would cause problems for others (including our mom :wink: ). Some of these older threads are fun to bring up again, LifeLearner. And welcome from me, too. Unless I've already missed an introductory thread, you'll have to tell us about yourself, family, curriculum, etc. Look forward to getting to know you!

I once shared that opinion with a group (I do share the opinion as in I agree) and boys oh boys did I raise the roof. I still hold to the belief that when we are worshipping ANYWHERE, we are to be respectful. But for those who have church in their homes - I would hope they are allowed to play and laugh and be silly in those rooms between church times. Why the difference?
just more of my boundless opinions for which I am constantly in trouble. :)

[Lornaabc]

If any child falls asleep during church I look at that as he or she must need some sleep. God gives that too.
My boys, 8, play with small toys such as a matchbox car or something that doesn't make noise. Sometimes I do let them color or draw on small pads. It doesn't hurt anything. I did as a child and now I can sit fine for service but not as a child. I don't think some kids are made to sit still for over 1 hour. At my church sometimes 1 hour and a half. Too long for many adults.

[Trish]

I wished sometimes Vicki would fall asleep. She is so busy it is hard. She takes pencil and paper. She draws and plays quietly. If she is really having a bad ADHD day we go to the vestibule and listen from there. Their isn't no way in this world that Vicki would stay still for 10 minutes let alone 1hour or longer.

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone. I am not new to a to z teacher stuff, but I am new to the homeschool spot. I am not an average "home schooler" per say, but I am home with my 3 year old son and run a preschool out of my home. Does that count? I was just curious about this part of the site so I decided to stop by and had a few words to say about the spanking and church issues.

Spanking. I have spanked my son, but it is not our main form of discipline. He has been doing really well with the 1,2,3 lately, but he does get the occasional "wack" on the butt or sometimes his hands (he has a habit of not touching things he's not suppose to). I actually can't remember the last time I spanked him. I don't agree nor disagree with spanking. I think that if a child is getting spanked every day, then it is more the parents problem than the child's. If it's that often, then obviously that tactic isn't working and something else needs to be tried. I believe if used properly, then spanking is ok. I have seen children in public that "need a spanking", and their parents are one of those "new age" parents that don't believe in any physical discipline and coddle their child endlessly. But I have also seen parents that overstep their boundaries and use it inapproriatly. I think it's very important to talk to your child after a spanking and communication is just as important. They need to understand why it happened and what they need to do in order to avoid it.

As far as children doodling in church and so forth, I take my son to the Sunday School classes because I believe that he isn't going to learn anything from listening to the pastor preach. We are all there to worship and learn what the Bible has to say, and a 3 year old can not learn anything in that environment. I don't disagree with people wanting their children to be in the service, that is their choice, and I respect everyones different opinions. But the way I see it, when my son is old enough he will understand how to sit appropriately and respectfully in church when he is ready and in good time. In the meantime, I want him to grow and learn about the bible and God's love, and the sermon is usually not age appropriate enough for them (at that age) to learn anything. A child, at age 3, can not understand adult intellect. If it's not holding their attention, then why keep them there and let me be in a class where they can grow and learn better.

Sorry so long, I get passionate about certain topics, especially religion and children. It's comforting to hear that many christian moms believe in spanking. From reading a lot of the posts you all seem like a very charasmatic group of people:) See you all around :P

[Anne]

Just my two cents' worth about spanking:

I believe it is a tool that parents can use. It's not our first choice. There are other tools in our toolbox! However, a spanking should be given only in response to willful defiance to a clear, appropriate parental directive that the child understands and is capable of following. I believe the Bible clearly establishes spanking as a legitimate tool for parents. I also believe there is a proper way (never in anger, always with love, followed up immediately with comfort and a talk about why this was necessary, etc.) and proper spot (the child's bottom) to administer a spanking.

As far as frequency goes, if the parents are doing a proper job, it totally depends on the child!!!!! A very strong willed child could very well get more than one spanking in a day, even one a day for several days straight, depending on his/her stubborn streak. I was raised by awesome, godly parents who raised four responsible, law abiding citizens who are all in church, etc., etc. The rules were the same for all of us. But we each had different personalities. One sibilng in particular was very strong willed and he got more spankings than I did by a long shot! So although I think it's wise for parents to step back and reevaluate the situation if they find themselves having to spank quite often, it can also be a case of a very stubborn kid. I know I'm raising a very head strong child! At one point I despaired because it seemed spankings were a common occurence. But for a couple of years now we've enjoyed relative calm and spankings are rare! Whew!

Just thought I'd throw that out in case there is someone else out there with a very strong willed child.

Blessings,

[LifeLearner]

Spanking. I have spanked my son, but it is not our main form of discipline. He has been doing really well with the 1,2,3 lately, but he does get the occasional "wack" on the butt or sometimes his hands (he has a habit of not touching things he's not suppose to). I actually can't remember the last time I spanked him. I don't agree nor disagree with spanking. I think that if a child is getting spanked every day, then it is more the parents problem than the child's.


that depends on the child! I have raised a strong willed child who sometimes got spanked every day, sometimes more than once a day. It wasn't that it wasn't working, he just kept challenging. It was the only thing that DID work in fact. As he grew older we had to spank less and less. Now, at 16, I dont' remember the last time I had to discipline him in any way at all. I think he was 11 or 12. Occasionally I remind him to be nice to his sister or ask him to get to his chores, thats the closest I come.


As far as children doodling in church and so forth, I take my son to the Sunday School classes because I believe that he isn't going to learn anything from listening to the pastor preach. We are all there to worship and learn what the Bible has to say, and a 3 year old can not learn anything in that environment. I don't disagree with people wanting their children to be in the service, that is their choice, and I respect everyones different opinions. But the way I see it, when my son is old enough he will understand how to sit appropriately and respectfully in church when he is ready and in good time. In the meantime, I want him to grow and learn about the bible and God's love, and the sermon is usually not age appropriate enough for them (at that age) to learn anything. A child, at age 3, can not understand adult intellect. If it's not holding their attention, then why keep them there and let me be in a class where they can grow and learn better.


Our Sunday school is not during church. If my son isn't in the service with me, he's in the nursery playing with toys. Until he turned 3, he was there, but now I often have him with me in the service. I take his toddler bible, bible story books, even some of his veggie tale toys with us and he has a chair to sit on or kneel at and play. So long as he's quiet, we're all happy. He's not allowed to do a lot of up and down off his chair or a lot of movement that can be disruptive, but he is allowed to be a 3 yr old and not expected to hang on the pastors every word. Next year he will be old enough for jr church but I doubt he'll go. He's very shy and I'm not about to push the issue. He's happy with me in church and he'll slowly grow into sitting more quietly with us.

I'm with you in children being one of my passions. So very much so!

Glenda

[Anne]

When he was 3 and 4 yrs. old, ds would catch something everytime we took him to his children's class at church. A cold would trigger his allergies, he'd get sicker, etc. So we kept him in the regular services with us. We packed a small backpack for church with a little snack (something non-messy), a little carton of juice, small quiet toys, a coloring book, picture books, etc. He is now a master at sitting quietly in church. We still let him bring quiet things to do, although as he gets older, we'll teach him to take notes instead. Because he's a very active boy, sitting with absolutely nothing to do would drive him bananas. (He doesn't sit still while doing anything, including schoolwork!). But he listens and can tell us what the sermon or lesson was about! As long as he is not disctracting others, I don't think it's a problem for a young child to color, look at a Bible related picture book, etc.

In small churches, there isn't always something available for children. When I was growing up there was Sunday school for kids, but only regular church during the worship service and we learned to sit quietly in church! But my parents knew there are limits to what you can expect from very small children.

Blessings,

[JenPooh]

I can totally understand about the cold thing. We go to a smaller church and the nursery/Sunday School for little ones is during the church service so it fits perfectly into our desires. Not all churches have that though. We recently became members at this particular church, and if we were still going to our old church it would have been different. It was a much bigger church (like 10,000 members) and I am sure we would have been dealing with the sick issue, but being at our current church we don't run into that problem at all, at least not yet anyways. We did run into a chicken pox incident, but he didn't come down with them (I'm almost sad he didn't, I kind of wanted him to get them while he was still young). That's the only thing we've seen so far.

I do know that if our church remains how it is now, there will not be Sunday School during the church service when he turns 6. At that age, they go to church, and then go to Sunday School while the adults go to an ABF. I don't necessarily see that as bad, I just know if I had it my way, there would be Sunday School at the same time as church for every age child. I just don't see the positive side to it like other people do. Maybe I'm just basing it on my past experiences when I was younger. There seems to be a lot of churches going to that though, with the children in church, then Sunday School following.

PS: OK, today I spanked him, so now I can remember when I spanked him last. He pushed one of his little friends down, not once, but twice, and that was it. He's been going through this "touchy/hitting/pushing" phase and I'm just plain tired of it.

[becky]

Hey, JenPooh!!! Welcome to homeschoolspot, girl!!! I think you'll like it here!
Where's your frog??

[JenPooh]

I haven't gotten that far yet. I'll work more on it tomorrow. Things are a little different here than at a to z so I'm gonna have to figure out how it all works. Thanks for the welcome. Everyone here seems as crazy as I am.

[Brooke]

Welcome, JenPooh! I'm thinking the frog is your pic? If you are having trouble with the avatar I can probably hook you up.

I also have a testament about spanking and strong-willed kids......most on here will remember the trouble we had with our oldest....well, I just realized that I can't remember the last time we had to spank him either!!!! Yippee!!!! Persistance pays off...and I totally can relate with whomever said that frequent spankings make you question your parenting...which is good! :D ....but if you are doing it God's way He'll let you know and then you can have a good cry and press on :D .

Both my kids HATE Jr. Church. They would rather be with us....and try not to underestimate what a toddler can get out of a sermon...God's Word is living and speaks to all and doesn't return void :wink: .....Again, WELCOME!

[Motherof3]

Well i do spank my children, even though i hate too. I think it hurts me more than them. My youngest is real hard work, he is 5 and Ive tryed to reason with him, talking, no treats and still even the spanking does not work :( I also came through a violent relationship and often wonder if im no different to my ex, but this is just a me thing, a hang up in my own mind. I often threaten them with a spanking, but if needs be yes i will.

[JenPooh]

My mom always use to tell me when I was little that spanking hurts the parents more than it hurts the children. Boy was she right! I get this empty feeling and my stomach just cringes every time I have done it. I think that just shows us how much we care about our little ones when we feel bad like that, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I am sure there are parents out there who don't give two cents about their child's feelings, and that's very sad.

[Brooke]

My hubby used to work in a prison. He has told me that it is a resounding theme with the inmates..."I wish my mom/dad would have disciplined me."--probably not in those words exactly (I think "whipped my ***" was the usual wording). At some point in time everyone realizes that boundaries and punishment go hand in hand.

Another note on my strong-willed boy.....when he was about 4 I remember him getting ready to do something in direct defiance of what I just told him. I reminded him that the penalty would be a spanking. He says, "I'd just get a spanking? Okay, I still want to do it." :shock: That was an eye opener! He was weighing the conciquences and deciding --to my face, might I add--that he was willing to take the bodily pain to do what he wanted. I obviously told him that he would still get spanked if he tried, AND I would successfully prevent him from completing the disobedient act. Man, oh, man. What we went through after that!...we sought out the pastor's help (he had a masters in counceling :D ), and my brother is a school psychologist and told me about Love and Logic, which is great for strong-willed kids! And we are all much happier now for it!

[JenPooh]

Tell me a bit about this Love and Logic-I'm iinterested!!!!

[Brooke]

Love and Logic is a method of discipline that's goal is to get the child to take ownership of situations he/she is responsible for. For instance, if a child (or you can use it with adults, too) has caused a problem for someone else, say the child has thrown a fit and knocked a playmate's crayons on the floor (taken from the SS classroom I used to teach :lol: ). Instead of telling the child to pick up the crayons, you lead him in figuring out how HE can fix the problem. You might say something like, "It seems you have caused a problem. Have you decided what you are going to do to correct it?" Hopefully the child comes up with a positive solution, but often the child will say nothing or say they "don't know". Then you can give some suggestions--good and bad--and ask the child what might happen if they chose one of those. If they still arent' communicating well, then you can say "maybe you could tell your friend to pick up the crayons. What would happen if you did that?" Usually they see when you give them a bad idea. The goal is still to have the child make a decision and deal with the natural consiquences of that choice. Another main goal is to keep yourself out of doing anything that puts you out since the problem is not technically your own.

Also, say a child is throwing a fit and it's driving you nuts our first reaction might be to send them to their room, or something like that. With Love and Logic you would let the child know--in an always calm voice--that their behavior is causing you pain/irritation/etc. Then you let them know that they will need to go to their own room where they can throw a fit without affecting anyone else...and that they are welcome to join you again when they're voice is at the decible of your own.

It's not exact responses, but you get the idea. I am calmer, my kids are calmer, and they are learning how what they do affects the people around them, and themselves as well. OH! One of my favorite oneliners is when one of my kids asks repeatedly to do something they were told "no" about (or whatever I've said)...after the first time you give an answer, just repeat "what did I say?"....keep your voice steady and calm and soon enough they get tired of your response and stop. Now all it takes is one time for me cuz I know they don't want to get a broken record from me :lol: .

OH! And another idea is when your child has been acting bossy or stingy or something like that.....just look at them and ask cheerfully, "so, how is that working for you?" Most of the time it causes them to reflect.....if they don't answer you then can talk to them about how that behavior may not be too desirable for others to be around, etc.....still, I have just scratched the surface with this, but the ideas in the books I've seen are priceless! One of my favorites is called The Pearls of Love and Logic for Parents and Teachers. It gives situational ideas for all sorts of issues...great find!

They also have a website. I don't subscribe to all their ideas, but the ideas for the moment are great.

[LifeLearner]

Another note on my strong-willed boy.....when he was about 4 I remember him getting ready to do something in direct defiance of what I just told him. I reminded him that the penalty would be a spanking. He says, "I'd just get a spanking? Okay, I still want to do it." :shock: That was an eye opener! He was weighing the conciquences and deciding --to my face, might I add--that he was willing to take the bodily pain to do what he wanted. I obviously told him that he would still get spanked if he tried, AND I would successfully prevent him from completing the disobedient act. Man, oh, man. What we went through after that!...we sought out the pastor's help (he had a masters in counceling :D ), and my brother is a school psychologist and told me about Love and Logic, which is great for strong-willed kids! And we are all much happier now for it!

That reminds me of my now 16 yr old. He was about 2 1/2, still in diapers. At that point a spanking was just a couple swats with my hand over his diaper. One day he looked up at me after and said "that was supposed to hurt?".

Lets say he regretted it. We introduced mr paddle and never looked back. He shakes his head at his stupidity at that now. LOL

Glenda