what the world thinks is normal....

[Patricia_K]

I was having a discussion with some friends about kids-shirts. So often when I see a nice shirt it has a text like "I love Rock and Roll" or "I'm a rebel". Well, for me that is not something I want my kids to wear so I don't buy it (even though it might be a real nice shirt). The ppl I spoke with really didn't understand that. Come on.....is their reaction.

From that I was thinking, can you help me make a short list of things that 'the world thinks of it's normal but when you think more you - as a christian - see that it is not normal'. Going to ps for example is the 'norm' here, ppl don't even think about 'is school normal?'.
Or when I hear ppl talk about nursing / bottle feeding you hear that bottle feeding is the norm (standard) and not nursing (while I think nursing should be the standard). you see it in sentences like 'mothermilk is better for your child' In that sentence formula is the standard and mothermilk is better than the standard. In my view we should say 'formula is worse'.
Know what I mean?

Could you help me think about these things??
I would love to grow myself in these things and see things more Gods way ;-)

[Actressdancer]

While I understand what you are saying and asking, I'm not sure if I'm giving an answer you are looking for (I know, I know, that doesn't make sense....lol). I'll give it a go, anyhow.

I've noticed that the norm for a mom is to classify herself based on her job to mother status. We use terms like "Work at home mom" (WAHM), "Stay at home mom" (SAHM), and "Work outside the home mom" (WOHM). These are the normal classifications when introducing ourselves, especially online.

When I tell people that I am a 'housewife', I usually get funny looks. (caution, I'm about to be SOOO not politically correct here.) Biblically speaking, I think I should classify myself in relation to my husband, rather than my children. Our marriage is more important than my relationship with my children, even if only slightly more so.

I am a wife first. I was a wife before my children and I will be a wife after they have left my care. If my relationship with my husband is not strong, I can't possibly adequately mother my children.

I am secure enough with my self esteem that I have no problems defining myself through my husband. Though I can't fully grasp how defining ones' self through their children is somehow better. For the record, I don't think that I "need" to define myself in relation to anyone, but if I'm going to, it should be my husband.

Anyhow. That's my two cents. Please put away your rotten tomatoes. This shirt is dry clean only.

[Patricia_K]

oh yes, this is exaclty what I mean...and what you say is so true!! the other day (really) I was on a dutch forum and someone asked to put the follwing in the right order:
I - husband - children - family - friends

My contribution was: God (smile, I added that one) - marriage in which husband first than me (not so much cause he is the man, cause in his 'list' I would be before him) - children - family&friends

I was the only one who put husband above children....

THANK YOU!

[Deena]

I agree with the shirts that have saying on them. There are some that we think are cute, but when we pull them out they have evil looking things or saying that I don't feel are appropriate!

I agree, too, Amie with identifying myself with my husband. That, to me, is the way God set it up when we were created, and I feel very comfortable with it!

We actually don't feel comfortable with the Harry Potter series of books. Witchcraft is not a part of God, and not something that's good to play around with! We are SOOOOOO different than most others because of that. But that's how we feel, so we don't get the books or see the movies, while many to most people we know do.

Now you can put away your rotten tomatoes, cuz I'm going to get on my dry clean only clothes! ;)

[MonkeyMamma]

Well I suppose I am a bit different because I do allow some shirts like that but it depends on what they say. Samantha and her friend have matching shirts that say "Caution: Severe Mood Swings Possible" with little hearts and smily faces on it. Now I do not allow those stupid bunny shirts that say rude things. I forget what they are called. I take it on a case by case basis.

I would put God first, then husband, children, friends and then last would be extended family. Some of my friends are closer than family.

I guess I would add that some people think shows like Family Guy and American Dad are funny. I think they are crude, crass, tacky and totally not going to be viewed in my home. Also vulgar music, or racial slurs. I HATE that and it isn't okay with me at all.

I do believe nursing is best. Although I didn't nurse Grace because I was going to college and she was being kept by her grandma during the day. I think staying home with your children and being a helper to your husband is best. Keeping a clean home, cooking nutritious meals, raising your own kids is way better than two parents working two fulltime jobs while kids are in daycare until 6pm. But that seems to be the norm and those of us who stay home are often considered lazy.

[kbabe1968]

It's normal to:

Allow the world to raise your children without batting an eyelash.

To allow a 4 year old to dress sexy AND encourage it.

To say that being beautiful is better than being smart.

Oh I could go on but I'm just getting angry!

The world is NOT NORMAL!!!!

CHEERING those of us who go against the flow! :D

PS ActressDancer - LOVED your reply regarding how to classify yourself! I'm going to start calling myself a Housewife and Mother! LOL :D

[MonkeyMamma]

I know Krista thinking of those things kinda makes me mad too! It makes me mad that we are the ones who are thought of as strange. I especially don't like it when people put their kids in daycare all dang day and then think we are strange for hs'ing.

[sloan127]

I know this is a little off topic but my boys came home from their public high school on Friday and told us there is a new rule at their school. No flags of any type, including the US flag, on clothes, cars or jewelry, no religious symbols or clothing, including my kids youth groups tees and hoodies which they adore and wore all last winter. I was just floored when they told me this. I asked why and it seems a kid came in with a shirt with a Rebel flag on it. The shirt said "100% cotton and your mama picked it". I was speechless. I don't know where this will end but I expect it to get worse before it is over. The ones with the Rebel flags say they are all going to bring/wear them to school tomorrow. I would take mine out of school but they are seniors and want to finish at their school. We will see what happens tomorrow. Please pray for a peaceful solution.

[Deena]

Yipes Beth! I will be praying for your boys and their school and for a positive outcome!

[MonkeyMamma]

Oh goodness I certianly will be praying for your son.

[DanielsMom]

They're going to ban the AMERICAN flag over that? Sheesh!

[DanielsMom]

Nursing is definitely normal to me. But almost everyone I know bottle fed. Dh came home from work one day and told me about a lady who said breastfeeding is nasty, that's why God created bottles! Lol, I never thought of it quite like that.
It also seems normal to put your babies in something, whether it's a carseat, swing, bouncy seat, crib, walker, whatever. I think it's completely normal to hold your baby.

[DanielsMom]

Oh, and how can I forget! We were on the way to the farm to pick up some milk, meat, and cottage cheese and we stopped to see BIL on the way. When we were leaving and told him where we were going, he thought it was strange. I guess it's normal to think milk comes from a grocery store!

[SoonerMama]

I was just thinking about the "classifying yourself" thing the other day. My dad does our taxes, and the first time he did them after I had quit working, I noticed he filled in "homemaker" on occupation. I thought that was really nice, because I think it is soooo important that I make a HOME for my family, you know? So, yay for dad!:lol:

[MelissainMi]

Well I guess Im not part of the "norm" Im a single mom who works outside of the house, puts her child in daycare(family)35-40hrs a week and homeschools.

Sorry no husband to define myself by but I dont NEED a husband to define myself..I am my own person a dh does not make me who I am. In my "quest" of dating I seem to be on I find alot of men dont want a secure woman, even thou they will tell you they do..why am I a threat? Do I shift the balance of thier "manhood"? I know Im in the majority on this board as being a single mom but hearing women define themselves behind their husbands upsets me. Just my thoughts...

[P.H.]

We are pilgrims and strangers on earth--just passing through. We're going to be considered peculiar and will inevitably encounter misunderstandings (and in some countries, even persecution).

I'm often tempted to hide my true values, because I dislike to be considered peculiar, even among Christians. You're right, Patricia, the norm is no longer normal. Perversions, sloth, sarcasm, strife, conformity,--all those things get higher ratings than loving one's husband, homemaking, and home-style child-rearing. I guess you could make a shirt that says:

I'M WEIRD! I ENJOY MAKING A HOME FOR MY HUSBAND AND CHILDREN!

or how about a politically incorrect quote about serving God, pleasing my husband, and training my own children.

[P.H.]

Melissa, we must have posted at the same time, and I probably would have worded my post differently if I had read yours first. Never-the-less, I'll amend it now by saying that those of us who are married, because of that fact, define ourselves partially as wives. I think, if I'm reading the posts on this thread correctly, that those of us here who are married believe that that should affect our priorities. That belief is no longer considered "normal."

(Not that our situation is any "better" than anyone else's situation, but since this is our situation, we choose to honor our husband's position in our lives.)

Just because you don't have a husband at the present time and do rely on family to help provide day care, does not necessarily mean that your values are at odds with this belief. (They might be, though. I don't know.)

What you said is appropriate, Melissa. I can see how you could feel uncomfortable with this conversaion, yet it's not about specific situations. It's about beliefs. I hope you feel free to continue to join in!

[kbabe1968]

Technically, it is already disrespectful to the flag to wear it on your person.

Ask any marine, army or navy man over the age of 70 what the rules were when they were in WWII.

My grandfather (who served in WWI an WWII in the Navy) refused to ever let us wear anything or do anything to the flag.

See...now in the "normal" world it's appropriate to do all sorts of things to the flag - they even pardoned the guy who burned it a couple years ago b/c of the First Amendment.

Anyway...there are "rules" around the American Flag that I'm not so offended that a school would prevent it - but then again that's NOT the reason their ruling against it, right?

Come, Lord Jesus, Come. That's all I have to say anymore when I look at the world. I'm grateful HE is merciful b/c I certainly am not! :D Working on that one!

[Dolphin]

Bottle feeding is not normal
letting kids watch TV as much as they want and anything they want is not a norm
junk food, white sugar and things like that are not normal. More to it- they are really bad for your health!
Promoting models, movie stars, being sickly skinny - not normal!!!!!!!
And many other things
That's why we are not of the world! Thank God!

[Actressdancer]

For the record, I don't think that I "need" to define myself in relation to anyone, but if I'm going to, it should be my husband.

Just to point out that this was included in my original post. ;)

I think that many of my "abnormal" Christian beliefs are also abnormal to most other Christians. I believe that Welfare should not be state run, but church run. It seems that many conservative Christians believe that any welfare in any form is just wrong. If you teach a man to fish and all that. However, I do believe that certain groups of people are supposed to be taken care of. Widows and orphans, anyone? And I believe that a welfare system that is church run, designed to help, not hinder, people to get back on their feet, and see them through tough spots is Biblical. I believe that the foster care system should also be church run.

I believe that routinely injecting poison into my children in hopes that it just might prevent a disease is wrong (and yes, I mean wrong from a Biblical perspective. And for the record, most major outbreaks occur in groups of people who have been fully "immunized"). I believe that disposable diapers are a direct act of irresponsibility towards God's creation, as are many other "normal" things.

At what point did the majority of Christians decide that they didn't have to do "green" things because of some lame excuse about God's timing and the Earth obviously surviving until He returns? I mean, come on.... The Earth will surely survive, as prophecy would imply, but what state it is in at that point will directly affect us none-the-less. And "survive" is hardly the world I would prefer. "Flourish" would be much better. Considering the Earth, and all that is in it, was one of the very first gifts God gave us, I'd say that if we can't take proper care of it, we're in sorry shape spiritually.

[Yes, I am speaking in sweeping generalities here. I understand that perhaps, with this group, I may be preaching to the proverbial choir.]

*steps off her soap box and returns to her semi-normal calm self*

[MelissainMi]

Im going to break this up so I can reply to it all.

Melissa, we must have posted at the same time, and I probably would have worded my post differently if I had read yours first. Never-the-less, I'll amend it now by saying that those of us who are married, because of that fact, define ourselves partially as wives. I think, if I'm reading the posts on this thread correctly, that those of us here who are married believe that that should affect our priorities. That belief is no longer considered "normal."

While I agree with you on this part I have to wonder why "wife" comes first. Being a wife is a very important role in someones life but when does it consume them so much they loose themselves? While I was with Madison's father, he consumed me, my every step breath thought it was all about Eric..what can I do to make HIS life better. That was my life then, this is my life now. I didnt complain back then I did what was "expected" of me and enjoyed it also. I loved being a "housewife/girlfriend" it made me very happy to be in that role, I couldnt wait to become a mom and have a happy family. I have to laugh at something my friend tells me I used to, When Eric was home(rare, he worked 2 full time jobs so I didnt have to work) I wouldnt talk on the phone or hang out with anyone..I thought it was rude and wanted to be with him only..:roll: that is where I "LOST" myself..never again!


(Not that our situation is any "better" than anyone else's situation, but since this is our situation, we choose to honor our husband's position in our lives.)

Just because you don't have a husband at the present time and do rely on family to help provide day care, does not necessarily mean that your values are at odds with this belief. (They might be, though. I don't know.)

Well when God "gives" me a man worth honoring I will honor him but I will not forget who I am. MY values speak volumes to me and my daughter, had I stayed with her father I would have been miserable, I think. Sure I have doubts but I firmly believe that I did what was right for MY family, when it was good it was really good but once you sleep with someone else nothing else matters in my eyes. You can never go back to before, trust is gone, Honor, HA! please. How can you Honor someone who doesnt honor you?

Also I want Madison to know that being a strong woman is very important. If anything I will have taught her matters the most, this is it to me. to know that she can stand on her own two feet is very important.


What you said is appropriate, Melissa. I can see how you could feel uncomfortable with this conversaion, yet it's not about specific situations. It's about beliefs. I hope you feel free to continue to join in!

Ohh Im not going anywhere, debates(if thats what this is<shrug>) are healthy on boards. I take no offense to anything and hope I dont offend anyone.

[Actressdancer]

Melissa,
I think a lot of that comes from not having a man who was acting in his role adequately. You see, in our home, I so strongly desire to make my husband "happy" (in a healthy way) that I consider that responsibility second only to my responsibility to God.
On the other hand, he feels the same way about me. So part of making him happy, is making sure that I am also happy. Does that make sense? In other words, if I completely lose myself to him, he's going to be miserable.

Sorry.. I think this thread has been hijacked. lol.

[P.H.]

Yep, I agree, Melissa and Amie. Relationships can be abused. There are "ditches" on both sides of the issue, and becoming a non-entity in order to supposedly honor one's husband is neither right nor healthy.

I truly also enjoy examining issues from all sides and could add anecdotes and examples of other women who, in my humble opinion, have also "lost" themselves to the point of not being able to have an opinion of their own and actually promote that type of thing. But if our conversation is hijacking, we'll just let it go at this. No offense here either!

[homeschoolinmum]

It's abnormal for older children to help with younger children these days (based off a lot of the convos around the WWW on the Duggar family). But hey, it's been being done for CENTURIES, since the beginning of time (at least til recently). Older kids cared for the younger ones so dad could till the fields & mom could cook, clean and sew.

It's abnormal to control your pets (this after a- our last home & b- an incident in my n'hood last night). Rather let them jump in other people's cars, let them jump all over children and let them wait by neighbor's mailboxes so they can bark and growl at people who don't own them or take care of them on their own propertry.

And the one that REALLY gets my goat- it's abnormal TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS!!!!! :roll:

Like a pp said- this is really making me angry, so I'll stop there. *sigh*

Common sense went out just like afros, bell bottoms & poodle skirts.:roll:

[seekingmyLord]

I understand about losing yourself. Having been abused by men the first half of my life and having gone through the process of healing and forgiving, I can say that there was a time that I felt I would never trust a man fully. However, then God provided me with the man He had chosen for me. That man encouraged me in ways that no one ever has. In fact, I would say that my husband helped me find my real self, the person I thought I was and wasn't to anyone else because I locked that part of myself away, if you know what I mean.

My husband does not define who I am, but because he is who he is, I am who I am, and he would say the same, and does often. In my priorities, he is after God, not because he demands to be, but because that is where I have placed him in my heart.

[Deena]

I understand about losing yourself. Having been abused by men the first half of my life and having gone through the process of healing and forgiving, I can say that there was a time that I felt I would never trust a man fully. However, then God provided me with the man He had chosen for me. That man encouraged me in ways that no one ever has. In fact, I would say that my husband helped me find my real self, the person I thought I was and wasn't to anyone else because I locked that part of myself away, if you know what I mean.

My husband does not define who I am, but because he is who he is, I am who I am, and he would say the same, and does often. In my priorities, he is after God, not because he demands to be, but because that is where I have placed him in my heart.
Wow, that sounds like ME talking! That's my situation exactly! God sent me THE man to help work through, with God's help, things, and be a whole person. NOT lost in the man, but a real person, supported and wholly loved by my dh, who doesn't WANT me to be a nobody that is there just to please him! He is soooo not that way! And I, in turn, wholly support and love my dh! It's a mutual thing---we work together with God. I can't say, "I did this for you, so now what are you going to do for me?!" We can't give 50%, and expect 50% back, each of us gives each other 100%!

I actually don't think this is hijacking. It goes along with ways we are different than the world! That's why there are so many divorces, because people are of the "what's in it for me?!" mindset! When one partner is of that mindset, it's not a TRUE relationship!

Anyway, Melissa, I certainly understand where you're coming from, and think you're doing a great job with your situation!

[Dolphin]

I aggree with Amie @ immunizations.
Are they highly promoted in the States also?

[MonkeyMamma]

I am curious as to why people think usuing disposable diapers is wrong.

I'm not trying to debate anything I just really want to know. Aren't cloth diapers messy? Enlighten me please!!

[Emma's#1fan]

Personally, Tiffany, I am a disposable diaper girl myself.:p
My mom was against disposable diapers. I remember having to wash them and they stunk!LOL
I loved disposable diapers just about as much as I like toilet paper. My great grandma use to use old rags for toilet paper as well as for her period.
Patty

[SoonerMama]

I used disposable diapers, too, though we did consider using cloth. With my son being the poop machine he was, I honestly think I would have been in the depths of despair if I had used cloth diapers. It was unreal and exhausting even though I could just toss them. I would think about cloth the next time, though. My question is this: What do you do when you are out and about and they have a messy diaper? Because I faced that situation so many times I have no clue what I would have done with a non-disposable diaper.

Well, I probably would have disposed of it!:lol:

[Actressdancer]

I aggree with Amie @ immunizations.
Are they highly promoted in the States also?

They are promoted to the point that the government tries to convince people that they are required by law (they are not required, but most people believe they are). If you do not immunize your children, there are all sorts of forms you have to fill out just to get them into school. And it's often hard to find a doctor who will continue to treat your child if you do not vaccinate them.

The government gives extra money to doctor's offices and schools based on how many children they treat/teach that have been immunized. So naturally, the schools and doctors push HARD to convince you to get the children their shots. And the list of "required" shots is growing.

[JenniferErix]

I became sold on cloth diapers when I had three kids of varying sizes in diapers.

Cloth Diapers are NOT the rectangles and Safety pins of the 50's anymore! The technology has advanced!

There are variations on the modern day cloth diapers, but for me....... we usd a simple yet awesome brand called "Snap to fit".

Modern day Cloth Diapers come in two basic types.
1. You can choose the All In Ones, where the diaper does not need an outside shell, wrap or other water barrier type addition. But the con is that they are harder to dry.
or
2. The set type (I USED THIS TYPE) is a diaper and a wrap. (I do not know anyone who used or used "Vinyl Elastic Panties" like they did in the 50's. That's just gross..... Mine were a diaper with what is called a wrap. It was a well designed breathable thing that simply velcroed over the diaper. (You will have to see the photos.... I will find them....)

Here's what sold me on cloth and I was a BIG disposable Diaper person, mind you.....:
1. They fit like pampers, with elastic around the leg and velcro (Or snaps) closures and everything.
2. They have "Sizer Snaps" which means each diaper can fit all three kids, just snap it low or high.
3. They never leaked, even when someone had the runs.
4. Solid waste is lifted out and tossed away in the trash, just like a disposable diaper. This is because BEFORE you put the child on the diaper, you lay down a dryer sheet type of liner. If they wet, then just reuse it after wash, if it is solid waste, EVEN RUNS GET TRAPPED, then grab by the corners, lift out and toss.
4. The diapers washed in a regular load of my washing machine, hot water, tide and bleach.
5. They dryed in the dryer.
6. The smelled and felt like bath towels when washed.
7. I only paid for them once and it only added two loads of clothes to what I was already washing.
8. the kids looked adorable in their diapers.
9. People thought I was superwoman, even though the only difference in work was to buy the seperate dirty diaper pail for the laundry. THAT"S IT!

So I spent $400 in the cloth diapers and maybe $3 a month on liners (Gerber makes the ones I used, and got them at Babies R Us or Walmart.) And it only added one or two loads to my regular whites laundry. NEVER did I have to hand wash a diaper or deal with leaks or Diaper RASH! YEA!!!

Let me put it this way, can yo imagine how much money you would blow if your clothes were all disposable? You would be broke, right? The diapers, wet or dirty (Remember the liner carried the stinkies away..) the diapers are no dirtier than your DH's nasty undies... (You KNOW men are yuckie!) But it gets clean, eh? Same thing...

Ok off to try to find photos we took to explain all of this....

[Actressdancer]

I am curious as to why people think usuing disposable diapers is wrong.

I'm not trying to debate anything I just really want to know. Aren't cloth diapers messy? Enlighten me please!!

The reason I believe they are wrong from an environmental standpoint is this:

Eighty percent of the diaperings in this nation are done with disposables. That comes to 18 BILLION diapers a year. Each one has an outer layer of waterproof polypropylene and an inner layer of fluff made from wood pulp plus super-slurper sodium polyacrylate that can hold a hundred times its weight in water.

Those 18 billion diapers add up to 82,000 tons of plastic a year and 1.3 million tons of wood pulp -- 250,000 trees. After a few hours of active service these materials are trucked away, primarily to landfills, where they sit, neatly wrapped packages of excrement, entombed undegraded for several hundred years.

It is illegal in most states to dump human waste in landfills. That law is simply unenforced when it comes to diapers. Theoretically they could infest the water leaching out of the dump with bacteria and viruses (polio, hepatitis, dysentery), though that has never been known to happen. Perhaps the other ingredients in leachate are toxic enough to kill human pathogens. Perhaps the diapers are so nondegradable that they don't leak their contents. Perhaps we just haven't waited long enough.

Anyway, the health impact is not the most serious indictment against disposable diapers. The main problem is the filling of landfills. A secondary problem in political minds, a primary one in the minds of environmentalists, is the waste of resources and the trail of pollution at every stage of the manufacture and disposal of the diapers.

Hershkowitz's data show that disposables use 10 times more resources (measured by weight and including fuels) than cloth diapers and produce 50 times more solid waste. (Donella H. Meadows is a professor of environmental studies at Dartmouth College).


Cloth diapers are not messy (anymore). The old style ones were, but not the ones commonly used now. The diapers I use are fitted, with elastic in the leg openings, with velcro or snap closure. They are shaped just like a 'sposie.

To when I have to "deal with" a poopy, I just take it to the toilet and use my sprayer (inexpensive accessory that attaches to the toilet) to spray out the poo into the toilet. Then "woooosh", flush it away. It takes about 25 seconds.

When I am out and about, I simply roll up the dirty diaper just like you would a 'sposie and toss it into a fleece "wet bag".

[Emma's#1fan]

It is normal for families to no longer come together at dinner and share their day.

[JenniferErix]

Here is the link explaining with photos how a die hard disposable diapering mom was converted to the simple cloth diapers........
I am not kidding when I say I used to giggle at people in line with diapers and at the same time I wanted to save them from the expense.... they had been lied to, indirectly that dispsables were easier.... they are not....

The description SEEMS more complicated, only because it is VERY detailed and because it is new to you. But it is REALLY just as easy as disposables.

Sorry that it has not been updated in four years....
But the information is the same.
The outbound links, may not work....

http://www.jennifererix.com/htmls/diapersone.html

[Patricia_K]

I started this topic and I just love reading it.....you all sound so much alike me ;-)

go go go

(now I have to change my signature to: loving wife of Paul, mother of....and i LOVE changing it, cause it's true)

[SoonerMama]

I love the pictures, Jennifer! I am the kind of person who needs a step-by-step tutorial! So maybe next time I will give them a try. We will see if my sanity can take it!:lol:

[Actressdancer]

I also bumped the thread I started about the diapers I made. There are links to diapering for free (or nearly free) by making diapers out of materials already in your possession.

Along the lines of shirts... My In-laws don't understand why I don't let my sons watch half the movies my nieces can watch. I even screen the G and PG movies before they are allowed to watch.

[Claraskids]

I am not normal because:

My children can not wear shirts that expose the belly.
Skirts/dresses must touch top of knees.
Swearing is not allowed in our home.
I "deserted" my college degree and job to stay home and actually raise my children.
I listen to my dh's opinion more than my parents.
I go to church more than just Easter and Christmas.
We don't celebrate Halloween.
We told our children Santa wasn't real right from the beginning and celebrate Jesus instead.
I encourage my dd (and sons as they get older) to refrain from all intimacy (including kissing) until they are married.
Oh, and worst of all, I homeschool!

[kbabe1968]

I could have written that list Claraskids! :D Well...with the exception of the swearing, I'm working on it really! :D

[sloan127]

Well ladies, today is the first day my boys have been back to school since the new rules were made. I had to have my son change out of his youth group shirt because it had a cross and a Bible verse on it. Second I had to tell him not to carry his key chain that the United States Marine recruiter gave him because it had several US flags on it. So here I sit waiting for my two boys, who I take to every church event we have, to come home to a house with a flag pole with Old Glory flapping in the afternoon breeze feeling like such a wimp for not taking a stand and letting them wear their youth group shirts today. I am not a rule breaker! I told them this morning we would give the school a chance to straighten all of this out and see what happens then. I don't think in our county a "no religious symbols" rule will last. I need wisdom dealing with this one. I want my boys to be good law abiding citizens but I also never want them to be ashamed or afraid to show that they follow a risen Lord. Please pray for our school system and the mess we are dealing with. Beth

[Claraskids]

Unfortunately, Beth, I'm beginning to think the "no religious symbols rule" will be around for a long time. I was reprimanded at my last teaching job because I mentioned the Christian version of Christmas during December. When I asked why that wasn't allowed, but Hanukkah was, the school pulled all mention of Hanukkah as well. Apparently, in order to not cause offense of any group, the public system feels it is better to not have anything even slightly religious mentioned.
Of course, I really knew I wouldn't be asked back the following school year when I asked why they still did Halloween. Last time I checked, Wicca was an officially recognized religion in the United States. That is extremely sad and scary.
I truly hope all works out well for your older boys, but I don't have much confidence.

[MonkeyMamma]

Oh wow thanks for all the info on the diapers! I had no idea! Makes total sense. I used disposable on both my kids because I didn't know any other way. I nursed Samantha and bottle feed Grace. If I could do it again I would nurse all the way and now I'd be willing to give cloth diapers a try.

[Patricia_K]

monkeymama, well, they have REAL BIG ONES as well, so you might give it a try ;-) saves many walks to the toilet on a day.

whoehaaa, sorry ;-) should go to bed I guess cause i am starting to talk in strange ways

[MonkeyMamma]

Patricia you are too funny! I think I'll pass on using them myself!!

[Jennifer R]

Wow, Tiffany! You sure left yourself wide open for that remark!! Patricia, that is so funny! Don't worry about the strange talk, you haven't been in on a diet pepper and chocolate late night party with the gals yet. Oooops! Getting way off thread with that remark!

Beth, that t-shirt has haunted me all day. Just when you think you have seen it all, it gets worse. We've been down here 21 years now and it still disturbs me how it is. My husband has said that at least down here you know people are predjudiced and are willing to admit it but up north they are more apt to hide it.

[DanielsMom]

I believe that routinely injecting poison into my children in hopes that it just might prevent a disease is wrong (and yes, I mean wrong from a Biblical perspective. And for the record, most major outbreaks occur in groups of people who have been fully "immunized"). [/I]

I just had to deal with ds's 5 year appt, thankfully he doesn't have to go back now until he's 7! But the baby is due next month, so we'll be declining vitamin k, hep b, and eye gook. Hoping for understanding nurses! I'm not against all vaccines, but injecting anything into my newborn will not be happening. But these 3 things in particular I think are not necessary.

[Claraskids]

Danielsmom - I agree with your vaccination viewpoint. When my dd was born, I just did what the doctors said. Luckily, at that time, very little was given to them. But when my boys came along, I had grown more opinanated and knowledgeable. I refused all vaccinations till 6 months due to nursing and not wanting anything put into newborns. I also refused to circumsize. Why cut off what they were born with? One hospital gave me a lot of grief but did not go against my wishes. The last one knew me too well to argue. Also they had seen my children react poorly to past meds and injections and did not want to go through that again.
Monkeymamma - 3 of my daycare kids have single parents. They are here just the bare minimum. My one with a dual parent home is here at least 50 hours a week. Why is that?

[JenniferErix]

The world think(s) it is normal:

To always assume a spouse is cheating, therefore you must keep strangling tabs on one another.

That children need to "Keep up with what is cool" to fit in to the "Real World", such as allowing them to watch the Simpsons because if they don't they won't be able to keep up when their peers are discussing it...... sigh......

To go out of our way to please our childrens dietary pickinesses... I have relatives on my side who will stand in a kitchen forever asking a four year old what she wants for breakfast....... it goes on..... I am no short order cook. We always have TWO things for supper you can either have TAKE IT or you can have LEAVE IT. Your choice! (That's my East Texas Grandmother talking!)

To assume that if a child is not standing in a particular building (A School)that they are not "OUT IN THE REAL WORLD", but when they are out in the real world, they are somehow trapped in a building.... (A House)

That it is gross for a man to bend over and show (TMI WARNING:) Booty crack..... (Plumber's butt)... But if a kid does it, or a grown man who still dresses like a child does it, then it is OK....because it "Is the style, right now"

That average everyday people care one iota if Brangelina adopt a fifth kid.

That when a man chooses to walk with Jesus it is because he must have had a head injury.

That Christianity is a "Womans' Thing"


I have a million of'em

[Actressdancer]

The world thinks it's normal for men to be either a) Dumb lugs or b) gay. There doesn't seem to be an in between. Watch any sitcom and you'll see that the only "smart men" on television are the ones who are effeminate, or, in other words, like women.

I could write pages on this subject. Heck, I already have (http://actressdancer.blogspot.com/2006/07/manly-men.html)...lol.

[Ava Rose]

Amie...I love your point on how men are either gay or dumb. lol. In fact, as I was glancing through all the pages of this post that the point I was going to make. lol.

Ok...I will admit I glanced through all the posts so I hope what I say makes sense in light of that.

I did not use cloth diapers. Can't say I ever would. However, I said I would never breastfeed and my kids were all breastfed. lol.

As opposed to worldly standards, I shelter my kids. I do not believe exposure to certain things helps but still harms children. I am raising kids that will value purity and not birth control. I love my dh and never speak disrespectfully to him or about him to others. I allow my dh his God given role to be the head of the household. I try fulfill my role as a wife and enjoy the benefits of submission. I know that submission does not equal doormat. lol. I homeschool, of course. Can't imagine who thought it was a good idea to stick a bunch of toddlers in the same room together anyway. lol. I don't feel school properly socializes a child but acutally harms their ability to socialize. I don't allow my kids to wear clothes that I feel a child of God should be wearing. (however, some may still think I am liberal...I don't know...we all have different convictions) I do not celebrate Halloween. I do not allow my kids to read or watch Harry Potter. I don't mind offending others with my point of view...to heck with pc language. Say it respectful...yet say it proud and don't say way from truth.

Ya know....the Harry Potter thing ticks me off. The bible couldn't be more clear on God's position on witchcraft. J.K. Rowling said that she tried to make her books as realistic as possible...the spells are actual words from real witch spells (not that they achieve the same thing..lol) She put in symbolisim everywhere down to the name Potter. There is nothing innocent about it. Ok...enough of my vent. This topic only came up in my mind because the co-pastor at my church lets his kids watch and read Harry Potter. If you knew him and knew the conviction on which he preaches you could see how this ticks me off.

Ok...sorry...back to topic...

[Emma's#1fan]

We do not drink. This goes against what many people in this world believe. For one, Handsome used to be an alcoholic. Two, it doesn't serve as a means of entertainment. We have received looks and comments from some people when we tell them that we do not drink. This is alright but it does make us look abnormal.:?
Patty

[Ava Rose]

Patty...we are not drinkers also. That does get you some looks! lol.

Ya know...I used to go to bars when I was in college and before I was a Christian. Now, that I have a new pair of eyes, I think how crazy a bar is. A place completely centered around drinking. What good can come from that? lol

[MonkeyMamma]

Harry Potter isn't an issue at all in my home. I have never told my kids they could or could not read the books because Samantha has no interest at all in it. My friend came over the other week for me to do her hair and asked Samantha if she had ready the newest Harry Potter book. Samantha said no but she had just finished one of the Little House books and my friend thought that was strange. Go figure.

Dh likes beer on weekends when he BBQs and watches football. I'll have one with him sometimes or share a margarita with a girlfriend. I hate to be around people who drink too much like my inlaws. But an occassional drink doesn't bother me.

Jennifererix I liked your list.

[JenPooh]

IMO, there isn't a "normal" or "not normal", there are just difference in opinions and preferences. The shirts...some of them are out there, but we do have a few we think are comical. One of Tanner's says "My common sense took the day off". It fits him to a tee (no pun intended)! He also has one that says "Future Rock Star". As a musician and music lover, I personally like the shirt. Aiden has one that says "I'm with the band". He wears it on weekends when I sing at church.

I think as Christians, God calls us in different ways. Just because someone does something differently, doesn't make them less Christian or more Christian. What I believe to be right, might not be what the next person thinks is right.

As far as my priorities, God is always first, but my husband and I both agree that we put our children above ourselves. On a whole, instead of separating my husband and children, I put "family" as my second priority. I can't see how one could separate husband and children, but that is just ME. :)

ETA: my husband would die without his Bud Light or Red Dog. LOL! Even his pastor for an uncle has had a few drinks with us, as has our youth pastor of our church. It's the ABUSE of things that God does not like. ;)

[MonkeyMamma]

Jenpooh is a very wise lady!

I agree. I don't necessarily put husband before kids. I just family right after God and before anyone else. I do agree that you must nurture your marriage because one day the kids will be out of the house but hubby will still be there. I try to have a nice balanced family life.

[SoonerMama]

Aiden has one that says "I'm with the band". He wears it on weekends when I sing at church.

Did you get it at WalMart? Jack has that shirt. It cracks my parents up because he has such long hair that you can believe he's with the band. (In case his constant singing didn't clue you in. :lol:)

[JenPooh]

We do not drink. This goes against what many people in this world believe. For one, Handsome used to be an alcoholic. Two, it doesn't serve as a means of entertainment. We have received looks and comments from some people when we tell them that we do not drink. This is alright but it does make us look abnormal.:?
Patty
Patty, that saddens me that people don't understand that. I know quite a few recovering alcoholics and know what just one drink could do to a recovering alcoholic. People should be proud of your husband for staying away from it.:love:

[JenPooh]

Did you get it at WalMart? Jack has that shirt. It cracks my parents up because he has such long hair that you can believe he's with the band. (In case his constant singing didn't clue you in. :lol:)
Nope Target. Sadly though it's getting too small.:( I want to get a new one in a larger size because I love putting him in it when I sing at church.

[Jennifer R]

As far as the t-shirts go, I'm usually pretty lenient but I don't care for alot of the ones I'm seeing lately. With Joyce back in ps I look at them from the teacher's perspective and I told Joyce that to me some of them are disrespectful. It is hard shopping for her because she is so long and lanky and I have to shop in the juniors for tops for her (she's only in a 12-14 in girls pants) and they are geared for older kids.

As far as the drinking goes, I grew up hearing stories of how my grandfather would make his kids (my dad) get down on the floor and cluck like chickens and eat candy off of the floor. That and the one about not getting beaten with the belt but the belt buckle. By the time I knew him, he no longer drank but I learned from what I heard. Also, my mom's brother went on a rampage when I was prego with my oldest and really tore his house up to include letting his stepson's rabbits loose. I KNOW that if I started drinking that I wouldn't be able to stop at one drink (okay, I'm that way with my pepsi!) and also I can't imagine not knowing what I did the next day. My dh has problems with drinking and I hope my kiddos have learned from him (that and my preaching at them from they were little) and stay away from it. Dependency problems seem to run in both sides of the family.

When I was in Germany, I would go out to the Gasthaus(sp) or clubs with people and order a soda or juice. I had guys keep telling me "you'll be drinking before you leave here!" but I never did.

[SoonerMama]

JenPooh, check out WalMart. We got one there recently.

JenniferR, that is how my mom is. Her dad drank quite a bit (though he wasn't violent or anything like that) and he died young and she has always said that she thought if she started drinking she wouldn't stop. The only time I have ever seen her drink is when we were in Italy and we got a call that my grandfather (my dad's dad) had passed away and she was stressing out about how to get us back and if we should go back. Her roommate on the trip had some mini-bottles from the plane and she drank one. You would have thought she had drunk a ton. I have to say it was pretty funny and we still tease her about it. Dh and I have a drink occasionally, but not very much. He is after me to drink red wine for my cholesterol, but I can't stand it!

[JenPooh]

I should also state the following...
Both my boys were bottle fed, I allow Tanner to watch some things on tv that others here might not agree with, I just sent my oldest child to public school, and I immunize my kids (although I do not do the flu, chicken pox, and other ones I feel are unnecessary). It doesn't make me "abnormal" or "not normal" and it certainly doesn't make me less of a Christian. These were just the choices I/we made, but it certainly doesn't mean I am any less closer in my relationship with God. :) ;) If someone chooses a different path, I by no means will call them "wrong"...I think that is harsh...it's just a difference in choices.

[JenPooh]

JenPooh, check out WalMart. We got one there recently.

THANK YOU!!! I will def. check it out!:D

[KrisRV]

well I guess I am not normal or my family but oh well I put it this way God made the world different for us. Because he knew we all were different and didn't want everyone to be the same. So, what ever we do or wear and think it's ok for our family, that is something we had to live with and work with. I know here comes the tomatoes..

[Ava Rose]

well I guess I am not normal or my family but oh well I put it this way God made the world different for us. Because he knew we all were different and didn't want everyone to be the same. So, what ever we do or wear and think it's ok for our family, that is something we had to live with and work with. I know here comes the tomatoes..

No tomatoes here...I think that is well stated.

[JenPooh]

well I guess I am not normal or my family but oh well I put it this way God made the world different for us. Because he knew we all were different and didn't want everyone to be the same. So, what ever we do or wear and think it's ok for our family, that is something we had to live with and work with. I know here comes the tomatoes..No tomatoes here either Kris.:love:

[MonkeyMamma]

My kids got all their shots although I just did it because that is what I was supposed to do. Neither of my kids were in daycare because their grandma's kept them but I did work - one time as a single mom I worked 3 jobs. I'm sure I let my kids watch a lot of stuff that other kids are not allowed to watch. Grace was bottle fed and I used disposable diapers. Jenpooh is right. It is a choice and we are all allowed to make our own choices. I don't want anyone to think I look down on the working mom. I just don't like when anyone working or staying home who thinks I am weird and is vocal about it because of the choice I made to homeschool. Would I make the same decisions again regarding shots, diapers, bottles, etc... maybe, maybe not. But thankfully we all have choices.

[Claraskids]

As Monkeymamma put it - we all have to make the best decisions for our family.

Kris - SOOOOO glad to have you back!!!!

[Patricia_K]

yes we all have to make our own choices but it also sounds a bit like 'you have your truth and I have mine' and that is not what I believe in.....

sure, you can choose what car fits best for you, those things are different than other things I think. (aahhh, english is my 3rd language so sometimes I don't know how to express myself perfectly)

[becky]

Melissa brought to this board the most huge whiff of fresh air I've ever seen, when she posted. Why do women have to identify them selves with husband? Or kids? To each his own, but I want Jeannie to grow up knowing she can do for herself, also. I wish I had been taught such.
As far as marriage- why can't married partners be equal?Why does one have to be 'first'? There can be equality in marriage, but you don't see it much. What I do hear is women being 'expected' to have the house clean, food cooked, kids quiet, all because spouse expects it. What's up with that?? We're supposed to be marrying mates, not second father figures, and he's supposed to be marrying a mate, not a second mother. Thank goodness my husband outgrew that stage, and he outgrew it when I stopped complying. My 2 cents. Give me change if you wish, lol.

[Emma's#1fan]

I can't help thinking that a healthy marriage and disfunctional marriage are being confussed. One is God's plan. The husband and wife walk side by side, in unity with Christ. The other is a dictatorship and not part of God's plan.
Also, Patricia, you are doing great! I believe that there is only one truth. Anything that falls outside of this truth, is not God's plan or desire for our lives. From marriage to what we wear, it must bring glory to the One who sacrificed so much so we can have it all.
Patty

[Emma's#1fan]

I know I am going on.:oops:
I have to say that I LOOOVVVEEE my husband! I would do anything for him because he would do anything for me. He is my bestfriend!
Relationships are not always going to be equal. It isn't a 50%-50% relationship. Sometimes I give more and other times Handsome gives more but we compliment each other. A man is to love his wife as Christ loved and died for the church, AKA the Bride of Christ. I take great joy in being my husbands partner, lover, and friend.
I thank God that I can live under His rule and take care of my husband the way he cares for me.:love::love:
Patty

[MonkeyMamma]

Melissa brought to this board the most huge whiff of fresh air I've ever seen, when she posted. Why do women have to identify them selves with husband? Or kids? To each his own, but I want Jeannie to grow up knowing she can do for herself, also. I wish I had been taught such.
As far as marriage- why can't married partners be equal?Why does one have to be 'first'? There can be equality in marriage, but you don't see it much. What I do hear is women being 'expected' to have the house clean, food cooked, kids quiet, all because spouse expects it. What's up with that?? We're supposed to be marrying mates, not second father figures, and he's supposed to be marrying a mate, not a second mother. Thank goodness my husband outgrew that stage, and he outgrew it when I stopped complying. My 2 cents. Give me change if you wish, lol.

I totally agree I want my daughters to grow up knowing they don't "need" anyone to be complete! They already are! BUT I also know that I do not feel that I am "expected" to clean the house and cook and keep the kids to myself because my spouse expects it. I do it because I LOVE my family! I have a degree and could go out and make bunches of money but I choose to stay home. I don't "have"to. We have mututal respect for each other.

[MonkeyMamma]

It isn't a 50%-50% relationship. Sometimes I give more and other times Handsome gives more but we compliment each other.

It should never be 50% - 50%. It should always be 100% - 100%. I can't imagine what my marriage would be like if we each only gave 50%.

We complement each other too!

[Ava Rose]

It should never be 50% - 50%. It should always be 100% - 100%. I can't imagine what my marriage would be like if we each only gave 50%.

We complement each other too!

Excellent point!!! I love that!

Also...I have to add that a good mom is a good mom regardless of working or not working. I was a day care provider for years. I have seen good moms and bad moms. The fact that these women worked had nothing to do with it. My pastor's wife works 40 a week as an accountant. She is an excellent mom and a wonderful example of a wife. Working didn't tarnish or hinder the love inside of her or her walk with the Lord.

[Ava Rose]

Oh and I used disposable diapers. I can't say I would ever use cloth. lol. I also allowed my babies to cry in their crib to get to sleep for 10-15 minutes. I also co-slept and picked them up and practiced some things considered AP. I was not AP all the way. I did what I thought was right. Again, being a mom is more than the way you diaper your baby. I think all of us share a love for our children and want them to sucede. I think all of us are doing what we feel is the best for our children. We may have different opinions and that is great! I love to hear what others do. We can't grow if we are not challenged. Sometimes I hear something and I change my ways or it only reinforces what I believe. I think we all have the same base of love we just manifest it in different ways.

[Deena]

As far as marriage- why can't married partners be equal?Why does one have to be 'first'? There can be equality in marriage, but you don't see it much.
Becky, Did you read what I wrote on page three, and what the other ladies have also said?

Partners CAN be equal! I should've quoted my answer, because it deals directly with this!

The man is considered 'first' becuase that's the way God made the family. The man IS to be the head, and the woman IS to support the husband. They are not to RULE over each other, but have a giving, loving and caring relationship!

That in no way negates a woman being a woman. I don't teach my dd that she is nothing without a man! ALL are precious in God's sight, and He made each one of us as individuals, very important to Him! Once you ARE in a marriage relationship however, if both partners are following the Biblical standard God set, then the woman submits to her husband. NOT as a slave! But as a partner. It CAN work, dh's and my marriage works, and some others on here have said theirs works this way. But it only works the way God planned it to work when both partners are on board and following the plan.

I don't know if that helps any.....

[KrisRV]

Becky, Did you read what I wrote on page three, and what the other ladies have also said?

Partners CAN be equal! I should've quoted my answer, because it deals directly with this!

The man is considered 'first' becuase that's the way God made the family. The man IS to be the head, and the woman IS to support the husband. They are not to RULE over each other, but have a giving, loving and caring relationship!

That in no way negates a woman being a woman. I don't teach my dd that she is nothing without a man! ALL are precious in God's sight, and He made each one of us as individuals, very important to Him! Once you ARE in a marriage relationship however, if both partners are following the Biblical standard God set, then the woman submits to her husband. NOT as a slave! But as a partner. It CAN work, dh's and my marriage works, and some others on here have said theirs works this way. But it only works the way God planned it to work when both partners are on board and following the plan.

I don't know if that helps any.....



Amen, well said Sister Deena, that is how my marriage works. but then again I am different... so don't go by me..

[Patricia_K]

I totally agree I want my daughters to grow up knowing they don't "need" anyone to be complete! They already are!

funny, i will teach them they are NOT complete, only with God they are complete :lol::lol:

[Patricia_K]

As far as marriage- why can't married partners be equal?Why does one have to be 'first'?

May be it is cause there are all these MOMS writing here.....if this would be a forum where FATHERS would be writing i am sure that my husband would put me first and than himself. First the other, than me. Also in marriage. It's not that he becomes first cause he is a man, he comes first cause he is not me :love:

[MelissainMi]

Please dont think Im saying that there is a problem with the sainticty(msp) of marriage there isnt! I also believe that marriage is a very special part of someones life and their walk with thier faith. All Im saying is why do you(collective you) have to identify themselves as "joes wife" not "Hi Im Melissa" who we are married to or who our children are do not make us 'us". and YES we do need god to be complete, without him we are not.

The man is considered 'first' becuase that's the way God made the family. The man IS to be the head, and the woman IS to support the husband. They are not to RULE over each other, but have a giving, loving and caring relationship!
So when the man makes or is about to make a stupid choice that affects the whole family, does the wife just say "ok dear" and support him even thou she feels differently? Just a question not a situation Ive been in or anything. If your dh came home and said "honey I feel we should move out to Idaho" with whatever we can put in our car and no jobs in sight, would you go? or would you question his thinking and wonder why?

I can't help thinking that a healthy marriage and disfunctional marriage are being confussed. One is God's plan. The husband and wife walk side by side, in unity with Christ. The other is a dictatorship and not part of God's plan. I never compared things to healthy or disfunctional marriages.



I was very content being "eric's girlfriend" and playing house... I loved seeing him happy and doing things for him. I never complained about being home alone most days or anything we enjoyed life..well until it all kinda blew up but thats different.

Anyways I wasnt trying to start a debate on this, Just stating how I felt.

btw: I used disposable diapers, fed formula to Madison, put her in daycare at 6wks, have only worked maybe 3 full time jobs in the last 7yrs, lived on welfare for about 5yrs tryingo to get my life in order, used the CIO method, discipline my child as I see fit if that means a spanking or the wooden spoon so be it. Time out is a spot on the steps not sent to your room to play, video games can and will be taken away so can the bike. she has to carry laundry up and down the stairs, carry in groceries(her little friend(4yo) asked me today why madison had to do this..umm she eats doesnt she?), she has had all her shots and nuetered(J/K! sounded like a pet comercial LOL) Do I regret any of these..NOPE! WIll she have character other kids might not have..YUP!

[Emma's#1fan]

So when the man makes or is about to make a stupid choice that affects the whole family, does the wife just say "ok dear" and support him even thou she feels differently? Just a question not a situation Ive been in or anything. If your dh came home and said "honey I feel we should move out to Idaho" with whatever we can put in our car and no jobs in sight, would you go? or would you question his thinking and wonder why?
Again, if a man is in God's will, he will be doing what is best for the family, not for himself. Just because I love and submit to my man, doesn't mean that I am without a brain or say so in our marriage. The example you are sharing, and it is a good one;), is a marriage where the man is not living for the best of his family or God and "NO", I do not think God calls us to honor sin. Now how far this can go, is another thread.:D



Anyways I wasnt trying to start a debate on this, Just stating how I felt.
Speaking for myself, I don't think you started a debate.:love: We are all sharing our opinions. I honestly have enjoyed this thread and would enjoy reading more. All of you ladies are a pleasure to hear from.
Patty

[Emma's#1fan]

It should never be 50% - 50%. It should always be 100% - 100%. I can't imagine what my marriage would be like if we each only gave 50%.

We complement each other too!

Wouldn’t this be nice! :D
It would sure make for no argumenting. We would be satisfied because we are receiving 100% and giving 100%.
The more I think about it, I must share that I am thanking God for Handsome’s extra serving of patients because I am hopelessly flawed. Sometimes I am pmsing and I KNOW that I am being stubborn and not doing God wills or giving what Handsome needs. This is when he gives more, in understanding and patients. Because my attitude can stink.LOL!!!
I solute you 100%ers!;) You are far better wives then I am. Like I said, I am hopelessly flawed.:angel:
Patty

[becky]

To each his own- like I said...

[Actressdancer]

Because technically I started this line of discussion, I feel the need to chime in again. If you read through my original post (back on page one), you'll see that I clearly state that I don't think we "need" to identify ourselves through any other person. The fact that many married women do identify themselves primarily as mothers then as wives, sort of as an after though, is what bugs me. It's the idea that calling ones self a "Stay at home mom" is fine but calling ones self a "housewife" is somehow sexist. My husband should be second only to God. That's the way God designed things. I have no problems with his headship, because we have a Godly relationship that includes him using his headship as responsibly as any human could.

[MonkeyMamma]

Wouldn’t this be nice! :D
It would sure make for no argumenting. We would be satisfied because we are receiving 100% and giving 100%.
The more I think about it, I must share that I am thanking God for Handsome’s extra serving of patients because I am hopelessly flawed. Sometimes I am pmsing and I KNOW that I am being stubborn and not doing God wills or giving what Handsome needs. This is when he gives more, in understanding and patients. Because my attitude can stink.LOL!!!
I solute you 100%ers!;) You are far better wives then I am. Like I said, I am hopelessly flawed.:angel:
Patty

Okay so it doesn't happen ALL the time. But 100% is something dh and I strive for. Doesn't mean we always hit our mark ya know? I am so thankful God gave me a man with patience! He balances me very well. I just meant that to our spouse we shouldn't just give half of what we are capable of because then that is all we should expect back.

Backing away slowly now.....please don't throw anything at me.;)

[Emma's#1fan]

I promise that I will not throw anything at you, Tiffany!!LOL
I love what everyone has posted. I do not know why, but I love that we have opinions and we can all share with respect. It is great!

Okay, now I need to get off. I have been awake for two hours and still haven't done my wifely duties around the house.LOL, LOL, LOL!!!!!
Oh, I think I might be having too much fun with this thread!
You are all great.
Patty

[MonkeyMamma]

I know Patty I love to see all the opinions too! And I really need to go and do my mommy duties!

[Ava Rose]

Wow...what a discussion. Personally, when it comes to how a Christian should conduct herself or himself there is no "to each his own." God is clear in how he defined roles for us in his Word.

Submitting yourselves, one to another to the fear of God. Ephesians 5:21

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. Ephesians 5:22

Wives are not expected to submit to an imperfect man in the same capacity (blindly) as to the perfect God. When a wife yeilds her will to her husband, she yeilds to the Lord---PROVIDED the husband's directions are "inthe fear of God" as in verse 21. So, if the husband's directions are in line with God's will it is her obligation to sumbit. Not doing so the same as not submitting to God. So, if your dh is right spiritually, and feels the Lord is leading him in a particular direction than as a wife you trust that. Why? Because you trust the Lord. Our submission to our husbands is a statement on our trust and obedience to Christ. Do you feel the noose around your neck closing? lol. Don't. If you dh is guided by the Lord you are heading in the right direction. This is also where praying together will help both of you. If a husband and wife are praying and worshipping together both hopefully will be on the page. So if you dh comes home and says he now feels the need to engage in sin...NO you are not to submit. Seek guidance. God gave you a brain. If he wanted you to be a drone He would have made you one. lol.

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Ephesians 5:23-24

So let's get over ourselves..our egos and pride, and realize that God's plan and purpose is bigger than your dh not wanting you to spend $50 on your hair. Marriage is a picture of the church. Each person, man and woman, plays a vital role. Again, the "every thing" is still qualified by the husband being in God's will. Your marriage is a picture to your children and others of Christ and the church. Think of your relationship with Christ....do you resent Him being at the head? Does the church try to make decisions outside of Christ's headship? Are we willing to submit to Christ. You see, this also tells us that if we are not willing to submit to our husbands than we are not willing to submit to God. What? How can that be so? God is perfect and our husbands are mere men. Well...they are the men that God instructs. God does talk to us also. However, God did not set this relationship up to glorfiy us but to glorify Him. I also don't read into this in any way that this means the dh is to order us around like a slave. I can't see anywhere in this that a woman should be barefoot and pregnant baking cookies or she is going over her husband's head. In fact, if you read Proverbs 31 you will clearly see that a woman has the potential to do so much more. The woman is a vital and necessary part of the family in EVERY way...from finances to her mind to her making good decisions.

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the chruch, and gave himself for it; Ephesians 5:25

Well, that blows it all away. Where can you interpret that a dh has the right to be domineering, abusive, or unGodly in any way shape or form? So, even at your worst you dh is to love you and respect you. God loved the church...God loved us in our sin..while we were yet sinners. He died for us while we were yet sinners. That is love, baby! lol. This is the enormity of the love your dh needs to express to you. He needs to put you above himself in a sense...as Christ died for us. Christ did not lead us to the cross to take the punishment. Christ took it for us. Much like your dh is actually responsible for his sin and yours. He has a huge job as head of the household. Not a job I would want to be responsible for...lol.

Basically, going to God's Word is the only way to define how a marriage should be. Yes, even if you are not a Chritian. Why? Because I believe God is who He says He is...the creator of the world. He has a plan and he uses us to teach His Word. Through our marriage He can teach the love Christ has for the chruch. Through our marriage He can teach the respect and submission the church is to have for Christ. If you look closely into marriages that are struggling or that have ended you will see how one or both parties did not fulfill the plan for marriage.

I do not consider myself a doormat. My dh does not consider me a doormat. He respects me and supports me in anything I do. He encourages me to achieve my personal goals. He would like nothing better than to see me achieve success. He sees me when I am down and tries to lift me up. He offers his assistance when needed. He didn't yell or blame me when I came home last night with a flat tire..lol. He went out late at night...when he had to get up at 4:30AM to change the tire without a complaint. When I do upset him he never demeans me. He never yells. He stays controlled and remembers he love for me. He wants me to be a better person for God not for himself. I am not downtrodden in any way. I respect him and he respects me. We have equally important jobs and roles in our home. Yet, if the Lord convicted him to make a decision that I was not thrilled with I would follow. Why? Because I love Christ and my dh. It is an honor to follow the Lord. It is an honor to follow a man who follows the Lord.

Ok...now I am backing away slowly...sorry for the lecture...not my intent. I just feel the best way to clear things up is to seek the truth. I could be wrong...I will admit...so please no tomatoes I really am fond of these Hello Kitty PJ pants I am wearing. lol.

[sixcloar]

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the chruch, and gave himself for it; Ephesians 5:25


That verse is so important is this discussion. When the husband is loving his wife as God intended (as Christ loved the church), submission from his wife should just fall into place. We WANT to submit, because our husbands are providing that godly relationship. The husband has a HUGE responsibility to care for his wife (and family) as the head of the home. My job is to trust that he loves us enough to seek God in all the decisions he makes.

That is not to say that we don't talk about decisions that affect us both. We do. We both pray about things choices to be made, but ultimately, I follow my dh's decisions, because I know he is seeking God's will for us.

Dh and I did not choose traditional wedding vows at our wedding. No "to have and to hold" "in sickness and in health". Dh and I found a set of vows in which he promised to be a godly husband and to love me as Christ loved the church. In turn, I promised to submit to him as God's word instructs. The book is packed away, but I wish I could give you a more direct quote of the vows. They painted a beautiful picture of what a marriage should be.

[MonkeyMamma]

Ava Rose you are so elloquent! Only problem is now I have nothing else to say!! You said it all girl!

[MonkeyMamma]

Dh and I did not choose traditional wedding vows at our wedding. No "to have and to hold" "in sickness and in health". Dh and I found a set of vows in which he promised to be a godly husband and to love me as Christ loved the church. In turn, I promised to submit to him as God's word instructs. The book is packed away, but I wish I could give you a more direct quote of the vows. They painted a beautiful picture of what a marriage should be.

Dh and I didn't do traditional vows either. We wrote our own and it was so awesome! He made me cry with his vows. It was beautiful.

[Ava Rose]

Y'all got vows. I was married by a preacher who hung around the courthouse for an extra dime marrying those in "trouble." He was kinda weird and had a tatoo that said something across the fingers....ya know...like a gang member...a word or a letter on each finger right above the knuckles. Waiting for a judge would have taken too long and my best friend and I were hungry.


Yep...how romantic. Go ahead and laugh...it was very funny. In fact, my friend, our witness, lol, could barely hold her laughter together during that lovely 10 minutes. After that we went to get Chinese. I then called my mom and told her it was done....I was now an honest woman. LOL. Geesh...what miserable memory...lol...can't even believe I just admitted to ya.

That alone tells you the amazing love God has for us and how He can use any messed up situation for His glory. Wait..did I just compliement myself in that??? I didn't mean that. I mean that my dh and I have a great marrige and God has blessed us even with a start like that.

[Actressdancer]

Well put Ava. I would have said all that if I could have done it without sounding... well.... "holier than though". I have a hard time getting on my soap box and not sounding condescending, even when that's not at all my intent.

And the important thing is that you are married... not how it happened. And if you really want vows, do them now. You don't need a pastor or big crowd. Just make a date with DH, get alone in a park somewhere, and exchange some heartfelt Godly vows. That sounds like a great date. One maybe we all should do from time to time.

[MonkeyMamma]

[quote=Actressdancer;118950] I have a hard time getting on my soap box and not sounding condescending, even when that's not at all my intent.
quote]

I have the same problem.:|

[SoonerMama]

Y'all got vows. I was married by a preacher who hung around the courthouse for an extra dime marrying those in "trouble." He was kinda weird and had a tatoo that said something across the fingers....ya know...like a gang member...a word or a letter on each finger right above the knuckles. Waiting for a judge would have taken too long and my best friend and I were hungry.


Yep...how romantic. Go ahead and laugh...it was very funny. In fact, my friend, our witness, lol, could barely hold her laughter together during that lovely 10 minutes. After that we went to get Chinese. I then called my mom and told her it was done....I was now an honest woman. LOL. Geesh...what miserable memory...lol...can't even believe I just admitted to ya.

That alone tells you the amazing love God has for us and how He can use any messed up situation for His glory. Wait..did I just compliement myself in that??? I didn't mean that. I mean that my dh and I have a great marrige and God has blessed us even with a start like that.

I got a laugh out of that one! What is important is your marriage, not the wedding. By the time we got married, dh and I had been together for 6 years and were totally committed, so we felt like the wedding was pretty much just a party to seal the deal.

[SoonerMama]

Well, I hope that didn't sound too flippant. I mean, the wedding was important to us, but not as important as the rest of our lives together, kwim? I guess my parents spent too much money for me to be TOO flippant!:lol:

[Ohio Mom]

My dh and I were married in a court house, too. We didn't bring any witnesses and the justice of the peace said, "Just a minute". He came back with two guys, One had a "Greatful Dead" tee shirt on and the other had tatoos all up his arm. They were convicts on work duty at the court house!!! We took pics of them, after all, they had to sign the marriage certificate. Ava, your post reminded me of our wedding. We were married in Greenup, Kentucy:)

[Ava Rose]

Wow, Ohio G'ma...that is funny. I guess I am not the only with a funny courthouse wedding. Man, if we put all of our stories together on this board we could make one funny movie! LOL. It would be a real chick flick. lol.

[Claraskids]

Another courthouse bride here, too. What I remembered most was the scowl on my dad's face (I was going against my parent's wishes), the judge being 20 minutes late and than showing up with a "looney toon" tie on, and having dinner at Hardee's. Not exactly the typical wedding!
Ironically, the judge spoke at length about God's love during the ceremony! I was so glad to be reminded that the Father loved me, as my own certainly did not. But that' s a whole other story.

[CelticRose]

Digressing back to the original post: the world considers bikinis on the beach (even for littlies) normal. We believe in modesty, even/especially on the beach.

Here it is abnormal to circumcise; we did.

We went through periods where we didn't even own a t'v (you wouldn't believe how weird people thought we were for that one)! :)

We do allow Harry Potter (on the same grounds we allow LOTR & Narnia) but not The Simpsons & all the shows spawned in that ilk. Actually I banned most kids tv if only because I thought there were better things they could be doing.

While most of the little girls at the local school were shaving their heads, mine had plaits halfway down their backs.

Now my kids are older we get asked a lot what we did different that they turned out so well. lol. God is our secret ingredient but no~one wanted to hear about it until now. :lol:

[Actressdancer]

When it comes to Harry Potter, I guess my thoughts are this:
How is the magic in HP different than the magic in Cinderella or Snow white? And even though LOTR was written by a Christian, there is still a lot of magic in it. (imo, Narnia is completely different because it is an allegory for Christianity, therefore the "magic" is the power of God and the powers of darkness).

Maybe this is a discussion for a different thread. I really am asking. My boys aren't old enough to worry about them reading Harry Potter yet and I haven't decided what to do about it.

[MonkeyMamma]

I do not ban magic in our house. In my opinion it is just a form of make believe - just like fairy tales. But thats just me.

Celtic Rose - some people think we are weird because we don't have cable. It amazes me how shocked people are when we tell them we only have 6 channels and hardly ever watch tv anyway. We use it mostly for dvds and videos anyway.

[Deena]

Well, to add to OUR abnormality, we, as I said before, don't "do" Harry Potter stuff, because in our opinion it is just disguised evil with real incantations that our children don't need to learn, see or dwell on. And to answer your question Amie, we don't do Cinderella or Snow White either. We also told our kids about Santa right away, they know there is no tooth fairy, we don't celebrate Halloween, we talk about Christ's birth and life at Christmas time and buy things for others that don't get stuff otherwise--not dwelling on "what am I getting for Christmas", and I don't know what LOTR stands for, so I can't answer to that.

Despite all these abnormal things we have done, my kids are happy, healthy, not rebellious, and we've had some fun and wonderful times as a family while they're growing up. They don't feel like they've missed out on anything, and love to invite their friends over to our house (they're not ashamed of us). All three of them are striving to be good Christians because they WANT to, we are not forcing them!

Oh, a couple other "abnormal" things we do (or don't do?): We don't read novels and we are vegetarians. :D

[SoonerMama]

Oh, a couple other "abnormal" things we do (or don't do?): We don't read novels and we are vegetarians. :D

Why do you not read novels?

[Emma's#1fan]

Here is another. Cosmetic surgery is very much the norm these days. I thought it was disgusting when I read an article that parents are actually purchasing their daughters breast implants for their graduation present!
I would not want my daughter to put her self confidence in the size of her breast.
Patty

[sixcloar]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deena
Oh, a couple other "abnormal" things we do (or don't do?): We don't read novels and we are vegetarians.

Why do you not read novels?
__________________
Jen


I'm wondering that, too. Not even the classics and such? I love to read, and can't imagine not reading novels (but not the trashy stuff!).

[Jennifer R]

Maybe I'm weird but I don't bother to cover my birthmark with any make up. Ohio Gma has seen me so she can vouch for me that it isn't small or light. Even with the technology out there today I don't know if I would bother. I only brought that up because the comment about comsmetic surgery made me think about it.

Weddings- we did things backwards - we got married in Denmark and honeymooned in NY and LA. We were able to purchase a package deal through the base we were stationed at that was called "Darling Denmark". This included your train fare, hotel accomodations, and your marriage at a courthouse. You turned in your paperwork on a Monday and got married Thurs. and all the time in between was yours. We had such a good time. It almost didn't work out because my dh's unit gave him a hassle at the last minute about taking leave. Mine was taken care of with no questions but they hassled him. There was also a training alert schedule for the Sun night before we left that would have had us on lockdown and unable to get off the base so we left early. We were told that the courthouse in Denmark would open at 12:00 on Monday. Well, about 15 minutes before, we ran into another American couple and found out the courthouse CLOSED at 12. We barely got our paperwork in in time! I laughed with my dh one time that I have no clue what the jp said! It was a neat experience, though.

Harry Potter - I personally don't have a problem with the series but neither Joyce or myself could ever get into them. I was raised in a very Hellfire and brimstone, Revelations scripture taught church and have also always had a strong respect for the fact that I feel there are things you just don't mess with ie. ouija boards. I do, though, enjoy many different types of books that may not appeal to others.

Imho, I don't think we'll see any tomatoes flying with this thread as there seems to be alot of respect for each other and our beliefs which is one thing I love about coming here!!

[KrisRV]

When it comes to Harry Potter, I guess my thoughts are this:
How is the magic in HP different than the magic in Cinderella or Snow white? And even though LOTR was written by a Christian, there is still a lot of magic in it. (imo, Narnia is completely different because it is an allegory for Christianity, therefore the "magic" is the power of God and the powers of darkness).

Maybe this is a discussion for a different thread. I really am asking. My boys aren't old enough to worry about them reading Harry Potter yet and I haven't decided what to do about it.



Amiee, I agee with you, my dd's always ask me that same question, why can't they read Harry Potter, if they read the fairy tales which most of us grew up with.. I am lost... I told the girls to each there own and we go from there..

[Emma's#1fan]

Maybe I'm weird but I don't bother to cover my birthmark with any make up. Ohio Gma has seen me so she can vouch for me that it isn't small or light. Even with the technology out there today I don't know if I would bother. I only brought that up because the comment about comsmetic surgery made me think about it.

Jennifer, you are sooooooooo weird!!!!;)

Just kidding!LOL
I have a very dark, large birthmark on my calf. I have had a third of it removed because it was causing me problems. It is still a decent size. Some people have actually had the nerve to tell me that I should have had the whole thing removed. I told them if I did, it would be for medical reasons only. It hurt to have some of it removed. It is a something Levi so it is thick and the texture is very different then the rest of my skin.
Often times, when I wear shorts, people stare. What amazes me is the majority of people who stare are adults. It doesn't bother me in the least. I have had it since birth and am used to it. It is funny because I don't even see it anymore.:D
Patty

[Jennifer R]

Mine takes up a large portion of the right side of my face and is a portwine so it is dark but it is smooth. Sometimes I amaze myself at how easy it is to forget it is there unless someone mentions it! As far as the adults go, my mom was looked at verrryy harshly when I was small because many people thought it was a burn. One day I was at the "big" library and a young girl asked me what it was and I told her "it is a birthmark and that is the way my face was when I was born". Her mom turned around and thanked me for being so open about it. I told her I would rather have the questions from the kids than the looks from the adults!!

Btw, Patty, thank you for confirming for me that I'm weird!!

[Actressdancer]

Well, DS5 had cosmetic surgery when he was 4 months old. He had an extra thumb tip. Two full thumb tips attached to the same thumb. I didn't want him to ever have to deal with the taunts and torments. There was no medical reason to have it removed. I don't feel it was wrong at all. Now, getting breast implants at 17 or 18 (or ever, really) is just ridiculous.

This is a bit blurry and my finger makes it confusing, but it's the only digital we have.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/actressdancer/MVC-010F.jpg

[SoonerMama]

I have had it since birth and am used to it. It is funny because I don't even see it anymore.:D
Patty
I have a birthmark on my leg that is about the size of a nickel. Obviously it's been there since I was born, but one day when I was in my 20s, my mom was like, "What's that thing on your leg?" Hello! You raised me all that time and never noticed it??? :lol:

I would not get plastic surgery for cosmetic reasons, but I would consider having it for health reasons. Breast cancer runs in my family and because of the way mine are mammograms would make it very hard to detect. So I am seriously considering just having a mastectomy and implants at some point. I never thought I would get to that point, but now that I have a child I just hate the thought of worrying about it. Of course, I would like a reduction, and dh is not on board with that part yet. :lol:

[SoonerMama]

Amie, that is exactly what my friend's daughter had--and no one noticed until she was about 12 hours old!

[Jennifer R]

Jen, you remind me of my sis. She has a small cafe au lait mark on her arm and I remember her trying to wash it off when we were small because she thought her arm was dirty!

Amie, I don't blame you for wanting it removed. I knew a little boy who's thumb looked like it had been sliced in two and was actually a double thumb. My mom looked into surgery for me (I was born in the 60's way before laser!) and the dr told her the blood vessels are too deep to even think about surgery. I looked into laser when I was in the Army but the first Gulf War was going on and the personnel that handled that type of thing were overseas. I probably still wouldn't have bothered after the dr I saw told me that it can be lightened but never removed.

[Actressdancer]

Well, we figured the surgery as an infant would be far less traumatic than waiting for the torment to begin, then going through the surgery as a child who would remember it. We were, and still are, very comfortable with our decision.

[Ava Rose]

My family is kinda like Deena's...well...the novel thing I am not sure on but everything else we are about the same.

Ya know, Amie...I struggle with the whole magic and make believe thing also. I am a huge Star Wars fan. I love sci fi. That is make believe. Some would argue as much as some "magic" type stuff. However, to me Harry Potter is undeniably evil as it is about witches and that is specifically spoken against several times in the bible. Yet...I wonder if I am hypocritical if I watch Star Wars. I say that you need to pray about how to guide your children. Don't listen to the world or your neighbor. lol. Don't even listen to us. lol. Pray with your dh for wisdom in this area. Something that seems offensive to me may not be to you and vice versa. Ask yourself not what is wrong with it but what is right with it. I have given up many movies that in my less mature christian years would have watched. Conversely, I am not as against some things that I was in my immature christian years. Weird, huh? lol. I just don't want to allow something in my home that may hinder my child's spiritual development. So, if I question it I ban it until I know more. For instance, I banned Hannah Montana until I had a chance to watch it and decide what I thought. Well, my dd is a huge Hannah Montana fan. I have allowed her to see it. I didn't see that it conflicted with the teachings in my home. However, others may disagree.

Ok...that is for another thread...the whole magic and stuff like that. NOt that Hannah is magic...that was another point. Ok...gotta go!

Yes, Deena explain the novels thing. I am not sure I understand. I would be very interested to learn your point of view.

[Ava Rose]

I think cosmetic surgery is fine for certain things. Breast implants and stuff like that for pure vanity sake...nah....but I would love to get the mole I havae removed from my forehead. lol.

[MelissainMi]

My daughter is a huge Hanna Montana fan, well we are just "getting into it" but its gettin there. I usually watch it with her on saturday mornings and Im ok with the show, some things I dont approve on but for the most part, its better than some other things/ We dont have cable either so she only see's it at home on saturday mornings.

[SoonerMama]

I think cosmetic surgery is fine for certain things. Breast implants and stuff like that for pure vanity sake...nah....but I would love to get the mole I havae removed from my forehead. lol.
What is up with moles as you get older?? As for just getting something done to look better, there are just too many other things to spend my money on that I want more! :lol:

[MonkeyMamma]

All this talk of magic and I seriously know nothing of Harry Potter at all! Lots of you are saying it is evil and I just realized that I have never seen a movie or read a book. Is it really that bad? Samantha and I have no interest in it whatsoever just because it isn't something we are interested in. I doubt that she has a clue about.

[SoonerMama]

Get your throwing arms ready....We read and own all of the Harry Potter books and enjoyed them very much. I view it as a story of the battle between good and evil, and if you know what happens in the Bible you will know what will happen in the last book.

[Actressdancer]

and I don't know what LOTR stands for, so I can't answer to that.


Lord of the Rings

[Ava Rose]

Harry Potter is a wizard. The book is completely about witchcraft. IMO...it is evil fighting evil. The bible says all forms of witchcraft are evil. So, my family just stays away from it.

[MonkeyMamma]

I have never read or view LOTR or Harry Potter. Man I must be a dork!

[AmyU]

I like Harry Potter. I have never read LOTR but have read the Hobbit. Isn't this the book before LOTR?

[SoonerMama]

Yes, Amy, it is.

[AmyU]

Well, DS5 had cosmetic surgery when he was 4 months old. He had an extra thumb tip. Two full thumb tips attached to the same thumb. I didn't want him to ever have to deal with the taunts and torments. There was no medical reason to have it removed. I don't feel it was wrong at all. Now, getting breast implants at 17 or 18 (or ever, really) is just ridiculous.

This is a bit blurry and my finger makes it confusing, but it's the only digital we have.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/actressdancer/MVC-010F.jpg

My cousins little girl had an extra little toe. She had it removed.

[JenPooh]

I do not ban magic in our house. In my opinion it is just a form of make believe - just like fairy tales. But thats just me.


I agree, but I agree with a lot of what you usually say Tiffany. :lol:

A few of our best friends don't have a tv at all. I don't find it odd at all, maybe because I've always had friends who don't have one.

[MonkeyMamma]

That's funny JenPooh because we don't have cable and people think we are nuts! Imagine what they'd think if we didn't even own a tv!! Our neighbors already think we have started a cult do to hs'ing!

[SoonerMama]

We have "poor person cable"--what you have to have to get reception here. The only good cable channel we get is Bravo, and I only watch that when they have Criminal Intent on Sunday nights. Pretty much all we watch is PBS. For a year after we moved here we didn't have our TV plugged in since we couldn't get reception and people thought we were crazy.

[Emma's#1fan]

Reconstructive surgery and cosmetic surgery are two completely different things. Ems will need more reconstructive surgery on her finger since she amputated it at three years old. The top portion is gone but the rest is growing very thick from scar tissue.
To me, cosmetic surgery is a nose job, implants, liposuction, or any surgery for vain reasons. I do not have a problem with people reconstructing what has been damaged through illness, an accident, or birth defects. Even having moles removed, I am okay with because moles can become cancerous.
They are not the same in my book.
Patty

[Jennifer R]

Patty, I agree with you as far as the surgery goes BUT I've often wondered if I could go through with surgery even if by some chance I had an opportunity to without worrying about expense. Some part of me deep down feels like God made my face like this for a reason.

[crazymama]

I just read through all the millions of responses here.. I really enjoyed reading them.. and the whole time I contemplated putting my 2 cents in.. and to prepare myself for the tomatos that I'm sure could follow. I have decided to spill it so here it goes:

We are not strong Christians in many people's eyes. Hubby and I both grew up in a variety of Churches. From that hubby got totally lost, and has no clue what to believe in. I took a little from this Church and a little from that Church and combined them to form my own beliefs. I don't believe in everything I read.. as in there are things in the Bible I don't believe in. I thought my mother would have a heartattack.. litterally!! when I confessed to her when I was about 26 that I didn't believe in the Virgin Birth. Do I believe that Jesus is God's son.. yes, do I believe that he is his only son?? NO. My children were put here the same way I feel Jesus was.. they were chosen by God to be put in my family. I know many of you are probably thinking I am condemned to Hell for thinking this way, but I have done so much soul searching and always come out feeling the same. I don't believe that God judges you by how much you go to Church or by how much you worship. I feel that he watches for your good deeds and therefore in my household we try to be good people. This is one belief that I am thankful that I share with my hubby.

I had my first son out of wedlock.. I had moved in with his father at 17, a junior in highschool. The only 2 good things that man did for me was make me stay in school, and give me a beautiful son. He also did the best thing for my son by leaving his life before he could permantly damage him, although I think the toll had already been paid.

My husband was a one night stand that went slightly wrong..lol. I was fresh out of the relationship with my ex (whom I never married), and Adam and I had been friends for 11 years so he wasn't a complete stranger or anything, but it still was our first date, and we both were really on the rebound. I still remember going to work the next day and talking to my friend there and crying because I was a slut. Adam came into my store the next day and we have been side by side ever since. We were married 8 months after our first date at a JP and I wore black :) I wouldn't change the beginning of our relationship for anything.. it really defines who we are. We are not typical...

Hubby hates sports and beer, neither of us drink and prefer to stay away from those who do.. which in todays society is hard to do. We do just about everything as a family. If we can't take the kids we just don't need to go either. We have started having date night once a month, but if we miss it no big deal.

I don't feel either of us put 100% into our marriage, but we are both 100% committed to it. We love each other for who we are, and we both try our best to lift the other one. I am not the best housewife, and he is definately not the head of our family. He helps with taking care of the kids and the housework, I take care of the money and most of what we are going to do. We make 99% of the major decisions together, unless something needs decided right then and there.. then it is usually me who makes that decision. He is a great provider and makes sure we want for nothing.

My children are all vaccinated, circumcized, and if needed spanked. They are all also loved. They do watch too much tv and eat too many sweets. My oldest was never breastfed, my 2nd was breastfed till 5 months when I was told to stop for the safety of my unborn baby and my uterus (I had just had a c-section) and my 3rd was breastfed till 6 months, when he weaned himself. I usually use cloth diapers, but have a stash of huggies always! I allow my son to wear funny shirts.. my favorite 2 are "Can I trade my sister" and "I'm the good kid, my sister's the brat", he also wears shirts with dragons and cars and 4 wheelers on them. I don't feel that clothing makes the person, but I also don't agree with the way most are dressing these days.

I will stop now... sorry this was so long, but I was on a roll.. I will hold up my shower curtain now so the tomatoes don't stain my hair..lol

[MonkeyMamma]

Sommer in many ways you and I are a lot alike and in some ways we aren't. I enjoyed reading your post and appreciate it. No tomatoes here girl!

[CelticRose]

Hey, I live in the Harry Potter house; I can't afford to sling tomatoes around.

[crazymama]

Thanks guys... sometimes I begin to feel like I have quite the outcast qualities.

[P.H.]

Thanks guys... sometimes I begin to feel like I have quite the outcast qualities.


Funny... Sometimes I begin to feel like I do, too--but on the other side of the fence!:) At least we have that feeling in common! (Actually, we have quite a bit more than that in common, and I'm so glad we can be friends "through the fence!!!")

Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed reading the responses on this thread, too.

[crazymama]

Thanks Prairie.. OH... and that vinegar.. I put it on top of the fridge so I would leave it alone.. and alone I left it.. for way too long ;) but it seemed to survive quite well! I thought it would grow a million more layers, but nope it just grew one :)

Friends who are capable of seeing through the fence are the best type of friends there are!

[P.H.]

Wow! Sommer, what a great thing to say! Actually, I'm guessing that most people, at one time or another, feel like they're "on the outside looking in."

Isn't the "vinegar" amazing? Have you done any research on it yet? That's another thread though. Back to the forum and what a unique place it is!

[JenniBear]

Wow, Ohio G'ma...that is funny. I guess I am not the only with a funny courthouse wedding. Man, if we put all of our stories together on this board we could make one funny movie! LOL. It would be a real chick flick. lol.


I am cracking up! My dh said, Hey wanna get married on Saturday? OK I said. So we hopped in the car, drove to Reno, and we got married in a chapel Elvis Presley style! LOL. Had dinner, gambled about $35, hopped back in the car and drove home.

The funniest thing about it is when we were in the elevator, and dh was wearing his Navy dress uniform. One dude got in the elevator and said, Ahoy! Jump ship?

Berry was sweating buckets during the wedding...I'd never seen anyone that nervous in all my life....and then he did the same thing four more times after that (c-section deliveries)

[P.H.]

Quite a variety here!!! I'll add one:

Last week in Colo we met a lovely homeschooling couple. (I invited them to join this Spot, BTW.) He knew he'd marry her the first time he saw her and asked his friend who was with him to be his best man. One minor thing--she spoke Spanish and he, English. After dating for a month, he proposed, through an interpreter, of course. "No" was understood in both languages. Refusing to take several "No's" as the final answer, he asked her to meet him at a major bus stop, downtown. He emerged from the bus with a bouquet of flowers, got down on his knees right there and proposed again. They've been happily married now for 17 or 18 years. Oh, yes! This all happened in Peru!

[becky]

Through the years the only thing I've been put on the spot about is Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and Halloween. I've told Jeannie the truth about those first two from the start, and Halloween I've never really cared for.

[Actressdancer]

We have never lied to our children about Santa, but I've yet to correct any assumptions they've made on their own. This is our compromise. DH would love to play up Santa, but we've agreed just to not mention him. I take that back, we did a study last Christmas on St. Nicolas and we talked about how many people believe he is Santa.

[MonkeyMamma]

Jennifererix said this so well the other day and I dont' want to steal her thunder or anything but I feel the same way - I can't imagine childhood without Santa or the tooth fairy or Easter Bunny or playing dress up and pretending to be someone or somehting else and soliciting free candy from neighbors on Halloween. Of course my kids know the real reasons for the seasons as well. One day they will be grown and it will be a sad day in this house when we can't play santa anymore. And I know that to some that makes me "not normal".

[becky]

Ahh.. the Easter Bunny. I forgot him. Last Easter time a friend was telling me her daughter asked if Jesus delivers the easter eggs and baskets before He goes to Heaven. It's too hard for some little ones to keep it separate. This girl was 6 at the time.

[Deena]

Sorry I haven't been back on, our internet was acting up.

I'm in a lot of agreement with OhioGma belief-wise I think! I'm not joining in on the other thread, cuz I've already stated my beliefs or "abnormlities" ;) on this thread.

About novels: It's a personal thing. Have you heard the saying: Good, better, best, never let it rest. Until your good is better, and your better best. To us, there are a LOT of things that are better than reading novels/untrue stories. There are a LOT of really neat and very interesting REAL stories that we can read. We just feel that REAL stories are better. Reading and memorizing scripture would be the best.

So, I don't sling tomatoes either, cuz I'm of the no Harry Potter, no novels, vegetarian stance! How weird is THAT?!!! ;) So I'll never fling any tomatoes. If one hits you, it wasn't thrown by ME! :D

[becky]

Deena, I never get the time to read for myself, but I have long wondered how people determine what is good or great reading. There was a book out some time ago called THe Lovely Bones. It was about a teenage girl who was raped and murdered by her neighbor. She was narrating the book from 'heaven'. It was gory, beyond sick, and I wondered about the mental health of the author. This book got incredible reviews! I read just a few pages and it turned my stomach, maybe because I have a daughter, but I can't see how anyone could get pleasure from reading this book. You could be on to something by avoiding novels...

[Actressdancer]

Yeah Becky, that was supposed to be our first read for our mom's book club. I decided just based on the description that I had no desire to read it. I've not even bothered to check back with the club. If that's the sort of stuff they are reading, I'll pass.

[SoonerMama]

The Lovely Bones is actually very similar to her non-fiction book about her true-life experience. It is called "Lucky." Well, obviously, though, she didn't die.

[Deena]

To add to what I said...........

Psalms 1:1&2 says: "Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on His law he meditates day and night."

To me things that are not of God are not something that should be dwelt on. Things that are not uplifting and helpful, or that do not help you have a closer walk with God should not be a part of what you do! To me, many novels (such as the one Becky mentioned!) and books and movies (such as HP) go contrary to the "meditating on it day and night" that this verse talks about!

So, since I choose to be a Christian, I choose to TRY to follow completely what God has set before us in His book as blessed!

[MonkeyMamma]

I love to read Agatha Christie murder mysteries. I love to read lots of different things. I do not think there is any way I could read the book Becky mentioned.

[SoonerMama]

I just want to say about The Lovely Bones--this is NOT a book for everyone. It is violent and heartbreaking. But at the same time, it is that way to show the impact that the crime had on the entire family--even years down the road. I read it and thought it was excellent, but it was kind of along the same lines as a movie like "Saving Private Ryan"--once was enough. I just do not think that this book should be lumped with books that use sex and violence just for kicks. Those kinds I do not want to even read once!

[Ava Rose]

I have heard of the book Becky mentioned but never read it. I don't think I would want to now. I do love a good mystery and don't think that conflicts with my beliefs. Again, flawed woman speaking...so take it for what it is worth. lol. I am not into gory.

[Actressdancer]

I had no problems with the book from a Christian stand point. I just don't think I could handle it emotionally. I have a hard enough time watching Law and Order SVU ;)

[Ava Rose]

I had no problems with the book from a Christian stand point. I just don't think I could handle it emotionally. I have a hard enough time watching Law and Order SVU ;)


I agree with that.

[SoonerMama]

Here is a total threadjack. Have you noticed that SVU seems to be about totally random things now? I used to watch it pretty frequently, though there were some episodes I just had to switch off. The other night I watched it, and it was about a guy testing pesticides on apartment tenants. And dh watched one the other night that just appeared to be some random murder case. Maybe I missed the plot turns in the year we didn't have a TV.

[becky]

SVU was always about women and girls as victims. I could never sit through that show. There came a day that I felt I was being convicted to stop watching L&O all together. What part of those series glorifies God? Not the language, the things they show now. I was a giant fan of that show, but this one day I felt I was being told to stop watching. Even the original, the best one of all- is full of gore and swearing.

As for The Lovely Bones- if you are turned by my description, keep in mind I've barely described how horrible it is. The main character describes her blood leaking out of the trash bag the killer has her in, how it stains the floor; describes how a dog found her elbow. Of course, he rapes her first, before he kills her.

[MonkeyMamma]

I've never watched L&O at all so I have no idea! I do love 24 and CSI although that has nothing at all to do with this thread! Sorry!

[Actressdancer]

SVU stands for Special Victims Unit. If there is a rape or a child involved, it goes to them. Any crime that has a particularly psychological element also goes to them. The one about the pesticides involved a very sick child and them getting to the root of it.

[MonkeyMamma]

I see. I do really like detective shows but mostly I serioulsy LOVE the BBC type stuff. Agatha Christie, Sherlock Holmes and things like that. I can certainly do without the gore. It is the mystery aspect I enjoy.

[P.H.]

*Smiling* It doesn't look like we have any truly "normal" people on this Spot, does it? I enjoy some mystery,too. Maybe, like someone said, "Normal is just a setting on our dryers!"

[JenniferErix]

I took my daughter to her tumbling class tonight at the YMCA (the Christian gym)..... the dance instructor had "SEXY" in big gold letters across her chest on a cropped top with pants that are basically extreme hip huggers.

I asked, "Is this the class for the 3-5 year olds?"

"YES!"

"Oh."

(Then, under my breath, because I had used up all of my guts earlier in the day)...... "Good thing they can't read!"

[Ava Rose]

Jenn...you are so funny. I can't believe that lady would wear that. A friend of mine said that a girl in her dd's 3rd grade class wore a hat to school that said *itch. Her mother bought it for her. I am not sure if she was told to remove the hat but my friend's dd said she still had it on at the end of the day.

[JenPooh]

I took my daughter to her tumbling class tonight at the YMCA (the Christian gym)..... the dance instructor had "SEXY" in big gold letters across her chest on a cropped top with pants that are basically extreme hip huggers.

I asked, "Is this the class for the 3-5 year olds?"

"YES!"

"Oh."

(Then, under my breath, because I had used up all of my guts earlier in the day)...... "Good thing they can't read!"
You know what's sad? Even though the C in YMCA stands for Christian, I have not really found any of them that really uphold to the term. It's like it's just in the title, and not really practiced or actually used anywhere in the business.

I worked for a YWCA (again...C for Christian) and we had some Atheist's on our board of director's.:eek:

[MonkeyMamma]

Jennifererix I didn't know S-baby was in tumbling! Samantha is but Grace refuses to take a class. Long story short - she wants to wait until she is 6 so she can be with the big girls.

Anway.....that was very tacky of the teacher to wear that to a little kids class.

[Actressdancer]

When my guts fail, I write letters.... to bosses.

[3boyshomeschool]

The world thinks it's normal for men to be either a) Dumb lugs or b) gay. There doesn't seem to be an in between. Watch any sitcom and you'll see that the only "smart men" on television are the ones who are effeminate, or, in other words, like women.

I could write pages on this subject. .

We have a passion in common! I rail about this often. I am also the mother of three future men and I cannot stand how men are portrayed on TV and the movies. You are right, they are either complete dolts or they are gay. I can't think of one version of a strong manly man that is on any show at this time.

Have you read the book, "The War on Boys"- it is maddening.

[Ava Rose]

I thought the C in YMCA was for Catholic. Was it at one time?

I have found in my experience that the name really needs to be YMA and just drop the C. lol. I have read their little thing they post on the importance of family and all that. I think it is watered down and worded to please a mainstream polictically correct world. I never even think of the Y as a Christian anyway. I don't mind my kids going to the Y. Just another wordly organization like any other.

[Ava Rose]

LOL...I figured the YMCA was already doomed many years ago with the song by those guys that dressed up like Halloween. I forget the name of the group. lol.

[Actressdancer]

The Village People...lol

[JenniferErix]

Well, they "DO" pipe in the local Contemporary Christian Music radio station over the PA in the work out room, the halls and so on.....

The people are REALLY nice.....

They pass out and make available for free many Christian things, such as the Christian yellow pages and other publications.....

But it is not like you are walking onto a Christian Campus, this is for sure!

When I was 8 I thought the Village People rocked! hahahahahah!
Dayng I am OLD!

[becky]

YMCA's differ. Ours has two branches, at each end of town. The south branch is very relaxed, and full of younger people,while the north branch has an older clientèle. I prefer the north branch for that reason- no young guys walking around like they're Rambo.
I just reported the aquatics director today, because you can't get her to return calls or emails. I don't know what her problem is, but I hope they get it straightened out.

[SoonerMama]

The Village People are the the OK State Fair today! I am here at home.:lol:

[homeschooler06]

I support my hubby's military career 100%. Yes there are bad days but I will never tell him to get out because we never see him. I hear alot of negitive talk from some of the wives.
We do everything as a family, from grocery store runs to extra activies. Like someone else on here, DH and I are not always 100% giving to each other but we are 100% commited to each other. I don't know how many couples we have know that have divorced and it was mainly due to cheating on one or both sides. I can trust my husband to go on the boat or some other deployment and not worry about what he is doing. Okay I do worry but not in the cheating part.
We just got cable and everyone around me has had it since the day they moved here. We CAN live without but since we can now afford it why not enjoy it for the winter since we will be stuck in side most of the time.

[MonkeyMamma]

Cheating. Another reason some people think we are weird. My husband doesn't oogle and drool over other women and apparently my redneck neighbors who think we are starting a cult don't think that is normal. These guys will drool, talk smack and go out of their way to stare at a young girl or lady right in front of their wives. Disgusting and totally vulgar! My husband doesn't go out to bars or strip clubs. My husband actually prefers my company to that of loud drunk women and rednecks. Imagine that! For some reason the fact that we are totally committed to each other and respect each other and the fact that my husband isn't a nasty, disgusting pig of a sorry excuse for a man really seems to bother these people. Good thing we keep our distance. I'm sorry we were ever friends with them to begin with. To me they are the one who ae not normal.

[Actressdancer]

Before DH lost his job, he worked in a store with 4 other married men. They would spend a lot of their off time hanging out at the store playing games. One of them would even lie to his wife about how much he had to work so he could be there pretty much open to close, 7 days a week.

They would often ask DH to hang out with them. He loved to play games, but many time just wanted to come home to see us. They just couldn't understand that. They didn't understand why he wasn't there on his days off. Most of his gaming time happened after his shift was over... at midnight. So we were all in bed, anyhow.

They made fun of him so much over it. Like, why in the world would he have any desire to be with his family?