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View Full Version : READ THIS!! >>> U.N. making homeschooling illegal?


JenniferErix
06-04-2006, 02:21 AM
Ok, I am actually scared....
:eek:

I found this on the HSLDA Website....
http://www.hslda.org/docs/link.asp?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fworldnetdaily
%2Ecom%2Fnews%2Farticle%2Easp%3FARTICLE%5FID%3D503 95 (http://www.hslda.org/docs/link.asp?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fworldnetdaily%2Ecom%2Fne ws%2Farticle%2Easp%3FARTICLE%5FID%3D50395)

Here is a snippet...
A U.N. treaty conferring rights to children could make homeschooling illegal in the U.S. even though the Senate has not ratified it, a homeschooling association warns.

Go read this!

becky
06-04-2006, 03:55 PM
I talked to a German technician in the doctor's office last year, and she told me homeschooling is not allowed in Germany.
I wonder which other countries outlaw it?

JenniferErix
06-04-2006, 04:01 PM
Well, what pissed me off the most was that SOME OTHER entity could delagate USA laws!!! Something is WRONG with this! Don't you agree?

I do not remember VOTING for anyone in the UN!!

Ths UN is supposed to be a place for nations to come to the table together and TALK.

The President of the UN was meant to be the CHAIRMAN of the committee, NOT the PRESIDENT of the whole world!

Doesn't this scare anyone?

becky
06-04-2006, 05:18 PM
It seems way too far out to happen here.

Jackie
06-04-2006, 05:37 PM
No, Becky, it's NOT too far out. The UN has gone into other countries, after they have ratified their "rules", and basically told them that the country's laws didn't follow theirs and needed to be changed. I'm thinking it happened in Holland, specifically, but am not sure. We have some kind of law, maybe in the constitution? that says a ratified treaty will carry THE SAME WEIGHT as the Constitution. It IS very serious. The UN feels they know what is best for the entire world, and everyone needs to bow to them.

becky
06-04-2006, 05:45 PM
Okay, I'll believe it when I see it.

Jackie
06-04-2006, 08:24 PM
Ah, but Becky, then it will be too late to do anything about it! How do you think people would have reacted to the idea of a Constitutional ammendment defining marriage? CRAZY!!! EVERYONE knows marriage is between one man and one woman!!! Inconceivable to think otherwise!!! Yet look where we are now.....

Trish
06-04-2006, 10:01 PM
Would this have anything to do with the one world stuff that is suppose to happen at the end of time. If it is then it is really showing that time isn't much longer.

Jackie
06-04-2006, 10:22 PM
Trish, I will agree with that.

Trish
06-04-2006, 10:34 PM
I honestly time is very short. That is reason we are seeing as much as we are.

Syele
06-05-2006, 01:31 AM
the end is what came to my mind as well..

scary.

JenniferErix
06-05-2006, 01:34 AM
(This entire message was written in the tone of "General Conversation, and debte". We cannot hear tone in ones typing, therefore, I felt it nessasary to convey that these are thought sin my head, not yells or screams or fights to anyone, here....)

Okay, I'll believe it when I see it.

I know how you feel, but please bare with me on this one.....

Point #1
That's exactly what I said to the story that the Government could actually come in and TAKE your property, simply to HAND it to a Commercial Enterprise for the sole purpose of increasing TAXES, that would benifit the same local community that TOOK the property.

It is called EMMINANT DOMAIN, and was originally created to serve the Government when nessasary such as to build highways and schools.

Supream Court Judge Sandra Day O'connor QUIT because of the NEW version of Emminant Domain.

See, in this new verion, LOCAL governments are called upon by these "Enterprises" and told, "Psst! Hey! If you GIVE me that land, I will build my mall, and it will bring in Millions more in local TAX revenue...!!!""

When I first read new reports on this... I said, "This is America! You can't take someones property just so someone else can make money off of it! That is stupid! I will believe it when I see it!"

I was stunned, when THAT happened.
I had to check other sources to see if it was not a joke.

Point #2
When the new bankruptcy laws were going into effect, I read a report that said that the republicans, Bush, in particular, refuse to accept three amendments to the new bankruptcy laws, I was stunned....

Those three amendments would be... for Identity Theft Victims..... Serious Medical Calamity Victims.... and ACTIVE MILITARY SERVICE MEN AND THEIR WIVES. For those folks.. NO SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS FOR BANKRUPTCY... Treat them like you would anyone who skips out on credit debt!!!!

I thought.. "No way! Bush wouldn't do that!"

He did.
Right after he cashed the $60 million in "Donations" to the "Special Interest Group Lobbyists" on capital hill.

And now the same government that sends GI's bills for broken equiptment, when they asre injured, also will not make special considerations, when those same people have to file for bankruptcy?

The same government that ALLOWS companies to PROFIT off selling your personal property.. YOU IDENTITY.. will NOT allow you any special provisions in the bankruptcy laws...?

And now, some Non-U.S. Government officials think they are going to indirectly change our laws???

It COULD happen, because we keep getting sold out.

I will believe someone has our collective BACK, when I see it.

Sorry for rambling, but I am actually scared, and as much as I may sound like some militant freak, I am not, this is simply information from the daily news, and newspaper. I just feel America is dead, if not dying and I feel hopeless to stop it.

But it CAN happen.

I voted for Bush.
I regret it, now.
But I am still a conservative.
I just think he is a wolf in sheeps clothing.
I do not own a gun.
But I cannot imagine someone not having the right to own a gun.
I think Militant people (Like millitias) are nutz-o.
But, I think after the emminant domain thing.. people are a bit freaked out about what CAN happen.

I just wish I knew WHAT I could do, you know?

Syele
06-05-2006, 02:00 AM
Yup I agree with Jennifer, Whan I was a nurses Aide years ago, my boss called a meeting to tell us that the newly proposed medicare laws would cut all our pay in half and restrict who could recieve medical help. I don't remember all the details now but it was serious. We drew up petitions and needed some specific number of signatures to get the law put on hold. We all went in the community on our own time to get the signatures. I explained it to people in detail.. most were people who'd actually be affected by the new laws.. and 95% of the ones I talked to simply said "Our Government wouldn't do that to us!" and refused to sign the petitions. 6 months later the laws went into effect. MOst of the small Home Health agencies closed down, thousands of Aides lost their jobs or got a 50% pay cut, thousands of Seniors lost their medical coverage for things they needed to survive and the large corrupt home health corperations that the laws were ment to stop were the only ones who had enough money to stay open.

We were willing to fight it but too many people just said "Nah, That won't happen!" How would it have hurt them to say... "I don't believe it'll pass with or without my signature but I'll sign that I don't want it to happen anyhow"? Apathy forced a large number of people into corrupt nursing homes and a large number of honest workers out of jobs in my area! It was a strong lesson learned, to watch it happen just because people were in denial.

Don't just sit back and hope bad things don't happen, we have to get out and do what little we can do. One of the very things that made America's freedoms so great was that people had a say in things. We can vote and petition and fight back when laws are put up for consideration. We can make a diffrence in our country. But what good is such power is most people just sit back in denial and swear that the law makers are going to act in our best interests on their own?

I'm no political activist.. but when something is shoved under my nose and I see that it's gonna be bad if it's true.. I say research it a bit and take a stand... It might just save your life or someone else's some day.

My one letter to my government representitives may not be much and by itself it'll do flat out nothing to change anything. But if poeple nip apathy in the bud and they get thousands of letters... they take notice!

In this situation, we have on our side that the US government didn't ratify it AND things decided by judges in this country CAN be overturned. I think (and hope) that it won't come down to affecting any of us personally... BUT I'm not going to blindly say it won't, the end times are getting closer even though we can't know exactly when things will happen. Alot of things will happen that will be out of our control. we may nbot be able to stop it but we can pray to God and petition to the government and at the least make a fuss, ;) who knows it might even help.

Jackie
06-05-2006, 06:58 AM
Then I would encourage you to do what you can NOW!!! Anyone who believes in "traditional" marriage needs to call their senators NOW. It goes before the Senate today. The majority of senators don't feel it's "necessary". Never mind that every state that passed a state ammendment has passed it overwhelmingly. As it stands, the courts can push whatever they want, regardless of the law. They can force states with an amendment to accept the legality of gay couples "married" in other states, etc.

Jenn, I voted for Bush, too. And I voted for him knowing full well that he IS a politician, or he would never have gotten to a place where he'd be able to run for president. No, I don't agree with everything he said or did, but at the same time, he's better than Kerry. Given the same choice again, I'd vote for Bush again.

An interesting thing is happening here in Ohio. The Dems have been pushing "election reform". In other words, Ohio is primarily a Rep state, and the Dems feel that it would be "fairer" to re-draw the districting lines to their advantage. They put a plan out that got shot down about two years ago. So now, the Reps have suggested redrawing the line. Of course, the Dems can't have that, and shot down the Rep proposal. So the Reps put back the identical proposal the Dems had put down two years ago, and the Dems voted THAT down!!! Seems that two years ago, they were all for "reform", but now they aren't. (Because we have an idiot Rep governor, and they think things are changing for the Dems. But if they lose this fall, they'll be pushing for redistricting again!)

becky
06-05-2006, 08:15 AM
All this talk about Bush makes me miss President Clinton again.

You might get some nuts that want to marry their own gender, and there might be places that are okay with it but how many are not okay with it?

As for eminent domain, I must really do live in Utopia.
A farm near here was needed - I forget why. It had been in this lady's family since the Pilgrims landed. She was paid for the farm and treated respectfully during the whole thing, because officials knew what they were taking from her.

A little further from here an entire block of homes were needed to build a store. Not only were those people paid, they were paid what they asked for when the first offer was too low for them. Here again, these people weren't trampled on. An entire neighborhood was being dismantled and officials realized that.

We have our share of issues here, but there's always something in place to make things right or at least fight to make it right.

Jackie
06-05-2006, 09:37 AM
Just out of curiousity, what would have happened if she chose NOT to sell her farm? That's the question. They try to be reasonable, but if a person choses not to, they force them to sell it. And the government has NO RIGHT to take (even if they pay for it!) land to put up a store!!! If a store wants to go in, the people who work for the store need to be negotiating with the current owners, NOT the government!!!

NO ONE in this country owns land. It all belongs to the government. We pay rent for it in form of taxes. Don't pay your taxes, and see how long you stay on your land!!! And the government reserves the right to kick us off whenever they want, though they will compensate us for it to so me extent.

becky
06-05-2006, 12:36 PM
Oh, she didn't want to sell. There was a picture of her in the paper, crying. She knew the sale was needed and like I said, they paid her. They were respectful of her feelings in this situation.

Jackie
06-05-2006, 12:40 PM
So, like I said, she had no choice in the matter. The government took the house that had been in her family's possession longer than the government existed against her will. Wow! I'm just dying to move into your Eminent Domain Utopia!

JenniferErix
06-05-2006, 01:34 PM
Becky>>
I thought more about this last night and I have to conceede that I do not know of any United Nations "Actions" that have resulted in U.S.A. Law changes. Therefore I must conceede that My fears are a little bigger than they may need to be. But my fears are bassed on the last ten years of, "I can't believe this is allowed to happen", type things, in regards to government.

So, again, I think my attitude is, "I'll believe that someone has our backs, when I see it.".

NOT because I join the far left librals, who believe the government is out to get us.
No.
I actually believe the government is a million left hands that don't know what the other millions of right hands are doing. And those who seek to take advantage of this anonymity, will always line up for the job. But they make the local officials who do start into politics to make changes in their local communities look bad. It is a circle jerk.

So, I completely understand your possition. And you may have no idea how much I hope you are laughing your butt off at us crazy hyped up women! hahaha! I just know that things can get out of hand very easily, that's all. And I thought it was important to bring this to everyones attention.

Much love for ya, hon!
jen

JenniferErix
06-05-2006, 01:36 PM
Just out of curiousity, what would have happened if she chose NOT to sell her farm?

NO ONE in this country owns land. It all belongs to the government. We pay rent for it in form of taxes. Don't pay your taxes, and see how long you stay on your land!!! And the government reserves the right to kick us off whenever they want, though they will compensate us for it to so me extent.

You are sooo TEXAN, in your thinking!
You are welcome to visit the EMPIRE of TEXAS!
Hahahah!
Yes, we used to have an Emperor!
haha!

Jackie
06-05-2006, 02:12 PM
Sorry, Jen! VIsited there, don't want to go back! I could NEVER live in Texas, lol!

JenniferErix
06-05-2006, 02:16 PM
That's ok, more for me!
hahahaha!

Tell ya what...

I think we should gather up all the evil puds who made us all think we had tochoose sides (Left or Right) and turned the US on each other..

We should gather them up, and stand them "UP against the wall!"
Bwaa haa haaa

Ok, calming down....

becky
06-05-2006, 07:09 PM
Oh, I don't think anyone's hyped up at all. Not in the least.

Jackie, that lady could have tried to fight them, I guess, if she chose to. There was decent, respectful dialog back and forth, though, and neither side really wanted this lady to lose her farm. There just was no other land acceptable.

Come on over to Maryland, Jackie. You're only a few hours' drive away, right?

Jackie
06-05-2006, 07:19 PM
Yes, she could have tried to fight them, but she would have been out all the money for court costs, and still would have lost her land. I'm sorry you don't remember what it was for. But it really doesn't matter. It shows who really owns the land. We had the same thing here. A guy lived on a family farm, had a big Farm Market just out of the city limits. The city decided it wanted to expand its limits, which meant a road right through the middle of his farm. He tried to fight it, but there was nothing he could do. The city "needed" to put the road right through his farm. Of course, he can't cross the road with his farm equipement. AND after they did that, they shut down the market that's been there for about 50 years, because you can't have farm markets inside the city limits! So he had no choice but to sell his farm off in little parcels, and you should see all the businesses that are there now. Well, I guess that's OK as long as it's not YOUR house they want!

becky
06-05-2006, 07:27 PM
I was never ED'd off a property, but the farm mom and I rented on for 21 years got sold and we were just as quickly disregarded. Been there, done that- in a sense. All 265 acres got sold off as lots.

Jackie
06-05-2006, 07:31 PM
You were renting. The government didn't come and take it from you, the owners sold it. If you would have had the money to buy it with, I'm sure they would have let you. Yes, it's similar, but there's still some differences. It's something EVERYONE who rents faces the possibility of having happen.

becky
06-05-2006, 08:47 PM
You win. It's all a conspiracy.

Jackie
06-05-2006, 08:49 PM
Ah, but is it a left-wing, right-wing, or a wing-less conspiracy? :D

becky
06-05-2006, 08:52 PM
Whichever one Hillary thinks it is. That's who I'm voting for in '08, of course.

Jackie
06-05-2006, 09:09 PM
You CAN'T SERIOUSLY VOTE FOR HILLARY!!! If you do, Jeannie won't be the first female president!

JenniferErix
06-05-2006, 10:03 PM
Nope!
As usual, you are BOTH wrong!

Sasha will be the first Female President!
Bwaaa haaa haa haa!

Jackie
06-05-2006, 10:10 PM
Becky, on the count of three, let's sneak up on her and throw some rotten tomatoes. Ready? One......, two......., THREE!!!!!!




incoming!!!!

JenniferErix
06-05-2006, 11:36 PM
(Thibbiitt!, I say while glancing at tomato laying on the ground, that barely missed me...)

In the words of that famous Wabbit... "Of course, you know....This means war!"

(Tosses a few maters...)

Jackie
06-06-2006, 06:44 AM
Thibbiitt! back at you!!! You were so busy staring at the one on the ground that you didn't notice Becky sneaking up behind until it SPLLLLLLLLAT! right on the back of the head!

becky
06-06-2006, 09:24 AM
Jeanne might not be the first then, but she'll have someone good to learn from. You won't see Hillary in anyone's pants but her own.

Jackie
06-06-2006, 10:33 AM
Well, Becky, that second statement is surely one I can agree with!!! Gosh, you and I agreeing on a "political" statement...that's scary, lol!

Maureen
06-06-2006, 03:37 PM
Becky,
I got a real laugh out loud kind of laugh from your Hillary statement. Thanks!

becky
06-06-2006, 04:27 PM
Jackie- I like you alot more than you think I do.

Jackie
06-06-2006, 04:32 PM
No, I doubt it! I always felt that you and I like each other just fine! I think we actually enjoy disagreeing. But there's still a lot of respect on both our sides and that's what matters most. Tell Kathe I miss her, too. She helped keep things lively! (Oh, and tell her I took that DURNED Power Glide to a Used Sale today. Hopefully I won't have to take it back home tonight when the sale's over, lol!)

becky
06-06-2006, 05:48 PM
Sigh... labels die hard...

Jackie
06-06-2006, 05:52 PM
I'm sorry, Becky. What did I say wrong? Send me a PM if you want and let me know.

ABall
06-06-2006, 06:25 PM
you gals are all being so dramatic.

becky
06-06-2006, 10:18 PM
Lol, Amy. Let me go look at the calendar!

Deena
06-07-2006, 11:27 AM
Jackie,

Did you sell the Power Glide??? I HOPE so!!! :D

Jackie
06-07-2006, 11:48 AM
NO!!! I came home and put it on Homeschool Classifieds. But I bought a Calvert School Grammar book for $1. (TINA!!!!) Rachael said it "didn't look TOO bad", and indicated that she'd be OK using to review this summer. OK! WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH MY DAUGHTER??? LOL!

Deena
06-07-2006, 06:11 PM
Rats! But at least you got that Calvert Grammar book for a steal!

TeacherMom
06-08-2006, 09:48 AM
People, we have to stop and realise that things like this UN thing will happen. We live in a distructive world that will only get worse befor the Lord comes again. Think about it, even in our own country they take God out of school and where is the guideline for what is right and wrong?
The enemy( satan devil any other evil nameyou want to give it) is really out there seeking whom he can devour ( even if I don't type or spell it right hehe) the thing is we have to know that our Redeemer is near and as it said in His Word, the Bible if we humble ourselves and pray then will He heal our lands! When I see things like this it tells me pray pray and pray some more.
Fussing or crying that its this leaders fault or that leader wont get us anywhere, it will just cause more strife and that is what the enemy wants.
It may get me in troulbe as this is the In the News section but I just had to say that.
Have no Fear when Jesus is near!
Get to know Him, you will find more peace the more you know Him personally.
Okay, slap my hands now if you have to but I have to be obedient to the Lord.
In His love,

Jackie
06-08-2006, 09:59 AM
No trouble, T'mom, and you're absolutely right. But at the same time, we need to stand up and fight for those we feel will lead us down a more godly path, that are willing to take a stand for Godly priciples. Judah had some good kings at the end, but they were only able to make outward changes. They couldn't change the hearts of the people. But they still tried! And I think that's sort of where we are right now.

Syele
06-08-2006, 10:56 AM
Yeah plus every minor change we do make will make our quality of life better as we go through stuff. to just give up and say it's hopeless so why bother will just make it all harder on a daily level.

TeacherMom
06-08-2006, 11:31 AM
True true! We do need to work to fix the problems, I was just thinking no reason to worry about it with fear, but definately need to work on growing our kingdom on earth to be a better place to raise our kids and all that. My hubby even suggested that I put my name on a ballot recently to see if I could help as we had no name on it at all to vote against the one on it with. Who knows, I am praying and if the Lord leads me that way I may do it next time!
But as far as what else I can do, yes putting the word out to make this country stand strong against outside orders is important!
I think our country was founded on the fact that we did NOT want outside influences... wasn't it?
I can see people of USA not agreeing to this just because it puts someone else in charge... we don't like that it hurts our American Pride!
Not to mention Homeschool is at an ALL TIME HIGH at least here in California it is growing in popularity and groups are popping up even in the Government settings all over the place!
It is considered almost a 'norm' now! Whoo hoo!
So don't get me wrong I am not gonna just sit and say 'oh well its gonna get worse' and do nothing, I already cut and pasted the article and sent it out to my hubby who will send it on to whomever he knows to do so as well.. I will send it to my sis too! She has lots of peoples... We don't want the UN telling us what to do!
Prayer changes things though so that is my starting place.

Jackie
06-09-2006, 09:33 AM
DEENA!!!! OOH HAPPY DAY!!!

Someone actually contacted me from Homeschool Classifieds about my Dreaded Power Glide!!! They're willing to pay me $30 for it!!! Oh, and there was GREAT REJOICING!!! (And to think I put it in one sale for $15, and reduced it to $10 for the second one!!!)

TeacherMom
06-09-2006, 09:47 AM
Jackie, do you think someone would buy my left over Life Paks from older kids who did not finish the year out too many times it seems? I have at least a dozen of various years endings. Mostly third grade for some reason lol.
I think it is because in third grade I find myself adding many things to make school fun again. They still learned the stuff, just in different books.

Deena
06-09-2006, 10:40 AM
HALLELUJAH!!!! Congratulations Jackie!!! :D What all are they getting for $30?

Jackie
06-09-2006, 10:52 AM
The tapes and Parents' guide. I have two workbooks that aren't finished, and I might throw them in, but didn't list them. I told them they'd have to order the workbook from the company.

T'mom, I don't know. You might be able to sell them really cheap at a curriculum sale, but I'd be hesitant to put them somewhere where people couldn't see them first. Or if you're more interested in getting rid of stuff than making money, many curriculum sales have a "For Free" table.

TeacherMom
06-10-2006, 11:11 AM
OH, good idea Jackie!
I was thinking of putting them out at a Garage Sale Yard sale I want to do this summer to get rid of stuff, with a buck a book or something like that.
I really want to get rid of stuff this summer and not to make the money but the money will be used for "fun stuff" like trip to Santa Cruz for over night instead of just the day that sort of thing.
Tmom

Jackie
06-10-2006, 11:38 AM
Garage sale would be a good idea, too. We had neighborhood sales today, and I really did find a good bit. Carl got a really nice computer desk that he can actually put two computers at for our new "lab", he got a skeet thrower (to throw the clay pigeons when he shoots), some baseball bats, I got some classical books, and a "Battleship" game to take to my mom's (because she's been fussing that the kids are bored at her house).

TeacherMom
06-10-2006, 11:44 AM
hey great finds! I am looking for bats myself, we have one little one my dad had bought my oldest, so it is the favorite. He bought y nephews tons of them but only one for us cause he was only here once in the season of baseball. Plus we never lost ours as nephew did.
though he managed to find them all in his room when it was cleaned! HA!
We have one older kid one , and then one adult one that is either my hubbies or mine we both had one, but now we only have one hehe
Good deal with the battleship game too that is always a good one!

kyzg
08-24-2006, 02:59 AM
Regarding the freedom topic, I get fired up about a more subtle example of how easily we give up our freedoms without even realizing it: the seatbelt law. It's easy for government to get away with this one because most people will readily agree that seatbelts save lives so they won't challenge it. I agree with the statistics, and I buckle up. However, it should not be a law. When not wearing a seat belt becomes a threat to someone else, then I could understand it becoming law. But I get pretty suspicious when Big Brother is more concerned about my safety than I am. As for kids, I personally believe they should be properly restrained in an auto--but shouldn't that be left up to the individual parent? After all, WHOSE KIDS ARE THEY? Sure, one could argue that kids can't decide for themselves, etc. but where do we draw the line? With recent concerns over widespread child obesity, could it be that one day Big Brother will send his agents to our doors to inspect our cupboards to make sure we're feeding our children what has been deemed healthy by some government agency? Sure, it sounds far-fetched but there's alot going on in this country that I never would have imagined in America. When it comes to freedom, we need to realize that those seemingly small, insignificant threats that come from within our own system can add up to a huge blow to our freedom. Think of a person who needs to lose 100lbs and they steadily lose only 1/4 lb. a week. That 1/4 pound doesn't seem like much at all but if that person could climb into a time machine and land a decade into the future, the loss would be significant. The way things are going in this country, are any of us really sure we would want to wake up in the year 2050?

Jackie
08-24-2006, 08:42 AM
Smoking is another one of those issues. Yes, it's a filthy habit. And I honestly love having it banned from all outdoor public places in my community. But I still voted AGAINST the ban. I am not allowed to keep my camper in my front yard or driveway, a neighbor was told he had to remove a basketball hoop from the court. It was right along the curb on a street that got little to no traffic. ALL the kids played with it, in a very appropriate way and NO ONE complained. (They did a general sweep of "everything" in the community). Many communities aren't allowed to hang clothes on a clothes line!

P.H.
08-24-2006, 11:01 AM
Thanks for sharing this, Jennifer. It's "later" than a lot of people can imagine, but I'm not sure what to do about it. We've been somewhat involved in politics (with a bro.-in-law a state senator) and are disillusioned about lasting results there. We've prayed for revival, knowing that God's protection and blessing follows, but national revival hasn't happened. So we may see more deterioration, instead, like in other countries. The challenge is how to prepare our children to stand up for their faith.

Emma's#1fan
08-24-2006, 11:30 AM
I think the government has to get involved in issues such as the seatbelt law. Nobody personally owns the streets. We are driving down public streets, freeways, and roads. When numerous of people are involved in a situation, there has to be rules and regulations that apply to everybody. The seatbelt law not only protects people from being ejected and others from the ejected person or persons but it aids in preventing other people from becoming a part of the accident by running over the ejected person, swerving to miss the ejected person, from children having to view the bloody body of the ejected person, from paramedics having to clean up the intestines of an ejected person. When a person is ejected there is a lot more police reports to be filled out. If the person is killed upon ejection, the street, freeway, etc... usually will be shut down until the coroner can come and claim the body causing numerous delays, especially here on California freeways. An ejected body can close a freeway for many hours. It personally isn't strange to me. I believe that all drivers need to have the courtesy to buckle up and because many do not, then it has to be enforced. An ejected body on a public road effects more then the ejected person. I do not want my child to witness a person being ejected through the air and then seeing them crushed by other cars because this person made the choice to not where their belt. Like I said, I think it is also a courtesy issue.
As far as the home, I agree completely. The home is a private place, completely seperate from the world. We may not own it or our children in the true sense of ownership but we have a claim on them. This is the place where we have or should have more freedom of choice. Except in a case where there is proof of child abuse then I think they need to intervene.
It can be difficult to find a medium for all these. We do live in a world that is crumbling at our feet but I do not blame all on government. We have a lack of honorable parents in this world who lack integrity and Jesus. Before people stepped into government they were raised by mommys and daddys. Many of the views they hold now were taught to them. I am a firm believer that things start in the home, they leave the home, and then make there way back again through the government.
I do not know where everybody here is religiously but I think before anything we need to be on bended knee praying for guidance and then share the gospel with others. In the end all that is going to matter is if a person has a relationship with Christ or not. Then we can make our way into politics and do what we are inabled to do, attempting to make a positive impact for what really matter Jesus and our children's future.
God bless!!!
Patty

Jackie
08-24-2006, 05:36 PM
Patty, I like you even though I disagree :) ! We have so many laws that are good and need to be enforced, but it seems everyone is busy trying to enforce the dumb ones. And a seatbelt law in my mind is a dumb one. If we didn't have it, I'd make my kids buckle up, and so would I. But that is my CHOICE. My kids wear bike helmets, and I do not. That is also my CHOICE. Sure, an ejected person can shut down the freeway. But it also shuts down the freeway to remove a body from a car that's been totaled. Or it could shut down totally if no body is involved.

We cannot regulate every little part of our life. People have to take responsibility for their own actions and for the ones they are responsible for.

Emma's#1fan
08-24-2006, 05:58 PM
Jackie, I like you too, even though I don't agree with your view.:D :D :D

People should take responsibility for their actions, this I agree with. Unfortunately there are lazy and inconsiderate people in this world who are not responsible and their lack of judgment falls on everybody elses lap. I do not think that any person's life should be compromised because of some foolish person who does not take responsibility and I am not just referring to seatbelts. It would be awesome if people did take responsibility because then we would live in an almost perfect world.
I do think that the government takes more liberties than it should, but I also believe that no matter what laws exist or do not exist, someone will always be unhappy. Like my dear old dad used to say, "You can't please them all."
All we can do is pray for guidance as to what God wants us to do.
God bless!!!:D
Patty

Emma's#1fan
08-24-2006, 06:08 PM
You know Jackie, after I read my post, I thought the "You can't please them all." part seemed as though it was directed towards you. This isn't my intent. I mean all people in general. Sometimes people will be pleased, other times people will not. No matter if the government is overly involved or not enforcing a law enough somebody will not be pleased.
God bless!!!
Patty

Emma's#1fan
08-24-2006, 07:47 PM
I was reading some information on the Billy Graham website for some insight on this matter. I came across this and thought it was awesome. Regardless what we believe about the government or laws or politics the final leader is Jesus Christ. I'd like to share this then I am no longer posting on this subject. (For now anyway:wink: )

Hope you all find them as inspirational as I did.

http://billygraham.org/MyAnswer_Article.asp?ArticleID=2472

http://billygraham.org/MyAnswer_Article.asp?ArticleID=2263

God bless!
Patty

Jackie
08-24-2006, 09:37 PM
Don't worry, I didn't take it wrong! I know what you meant! But thank you for making sure anyway! I'll look up the Billy Graham stuff when I have the time to give it more thought than I can tonight. I AM interested in what he says. And you are absolutely right about our final leader!

Elizabeth77
08-25-2006, 08:49 AM
This worries me, so scary! I don't want my kids being forced to go to ps. Not to mention, Wake County (county I live in) has the highest numbers of hs families of all the other counties in NC. Our public school system is already overcrowded because many, many people are moving here faster than they can grow and build more schools for. There's already talk about switching ALL schools here from the traditional calendar year to year round to fit in more kids until more schools are built. If homeschoolers had to go to school they'd have 6,361+ kids to place SOMEWHERE. And there's already not enough room for the kids that do want to attend ps. It would be in their best interest to let the hs'ers continue hs'ing so their problem doesn't become an even bigger problem. . . .:D

TeacherMom
08-25-2006, 10:09 AM
okay, just one thought about Seatbelts... I am not so sure it should be a law or not but.. when y ou are hanging upside down from your pick up truck that just did at least one 360 tumbling because of a freak water on the roadway accident... you are sure grateful for it!
I also have an aquaintence who said she would not have been alive fromher accident had she been buckled because she slid under the stiring wheel...
that is where my hubby was while I hung upsidedown btw, his head was twisted to side, he ended up with 6 tiny sutures in his head, me , I was fine, cut my thumb climbing OUT fo the upside down window!
that was.... 16? years ago? hehe

Jackie
08-25-2006, 11:49 AM
Exactly. For everyone whose life was saved by wearing them, you will hear of another who would have been dead if they had it on. It goes both ways. But we shouldn't be wasting time on trying to make common sense manditory. (BTW, seatbelts aren't required on school buses, at least not here in Ohio!)

TeacherMom
08-25-2006, 12:12 PM
OH I Know! And in city busses etc, where more accidents probably happen! Yikes!

Hey we had a kid tested at our school at church this week for 4/5th grade class and he came from a class with 40 students, one grade! He will be in about 11 kids class with two grades adding to that, plus the Christian School aspect so thats pretty much better.
Still, if I could give my kids a good , no great education at an outside school I would if Cost was not a problem, of course I would volenteer there and be near my own kids as often as I could too, lol, thats one reason I home teach to keep them under thumb... and me in the know!

JenniferErix
08-25-2006, 08:08 PM
Seatbelts are not on school busses becasue it is impossible for one bus driver (In an emergency, mind you) to be able to be sure all children are unbuckeled. (Imagine the chaos). Therefore, school busses have unusually high and padded backs to the seats. Also, it is true that buses are very unlikely to be in a major accident. Which brings us back to the original reason... If it is in a major accident, how does one bus driver timely make sure all children are free of their seatbelts?

City Buses, are a similar story. It is litigation problems, at least down here (Texas). The conundrum is the bus driver cannot leave his seat. However, who helps the handicapped, or anyone else, with their seatbelt in the course of a normal day of getting in or out of the seat? (Sometimes the seatbelt does not work right, some people need help, etc..) Now, add the impossibility of one driver being able to be sure all people on the bus got out of their seatbelts while the bus sinks in the water, or burns or what have you....

These are the arguments given.
That if you looks at pros and cons, it is impractical to put seatbelts on buses.

Just thought I would mention this, because I have heard the other side of the argument.


However, arguing that making people (Adults) wear seatbelts is forcing them to be responsable so that they do not hurt others is the extention of saying that you will arrest fat people, for the hurt obesity does to others. It is related, because your agument says, "If it hurts others, it should be regulated." But the "Hurting that is going on , is relative, at best. No one is Directly hurt, when someone is fat, or doesn't wear a seatbelt.

peace!

Oh! And appearently my fingers do not want to work, today, so please forgive all my typoes....
jen

Emma's#1fan
08-25-2006, 10:25 PM
However, arguing that making people (Adults) wear seatbelts is forcing them to be responsable so that they do not hurt others is the extention of saying that you will arrest fat people, for the hurt obesity does to others. It is related, because your agument says, "If it hurts others, it should be regulated." But the "Hurting that is going on , is relative, at best. No one is Directly hurt, when someone is fat, or doesn't wear a seatbelt.jen


Okay, I lied. I am posting again.:D :D :D

I agree that no person is directly hurt by a fat person or at least I have not heard of any. As to a person not wearing a seat belt, here I strongly disagree. I have been in the process of going to college to get my degree in Administration Of Justice Department with a specialty in Forensic Sciences. This is probably why I do not agree with you because it is a form of government, that I have trained for and am still in the process of training for.
When laws such as the seatbelt law are put in place, it isn't done so with the mindset that it is a good for all. It is a good for most. Whether you agree or not, it has been proven that seatbelts save more lives than not.
Okay, let me think how to summorize this...

You have two cars driving on the same road, one driving Southbound at 60 miles an hour and the other driving Northbound at 60 miles an hour. One car looses control, crashes and the passenger is not belted in. Due to inertia, as the car crashes the passenger continues in motion at 60 miles an hour. The body flies through the air and lands in the front or back seat of the oncoming car killing the driver or passenger or children in the back seat or all. (How would you feel if it were your child?)

How about when a car crashes because a driver is trying to avoid the ejected person and in turn causes a pileup.

The velocity of an ejected body is powerful. In the Forensic Pathology book, there is a photo of a person in the back seat of a car, with their face literally unidentifiable because it was crushed in by the incoming body of an ejected person. Unbelted, backseat passengers are notorious for killing front seat passengers in major accidents because the body slams up against the seat and crushes the person at a high rate of speed.

As for buses, seatbelts would be a menace in a highspeed frontal impact accident. But in a roll over, which has happened, they would be blessings. As you stated though, it is very rare for a bus to roll because of it's massive size. So obviously the need is far less than in a car.

No law is perfect and some are absolutely ridiculous. Maybe to some the attempt to control injuries or even death to some people is ridiculous. I happen not to think so. As far as I am concerned and obviously you do not agree and this is alright, but this law is not one to control you it is implace to protect others. We have to remember, we are not the only ones with rights. Other people have them too.

God bless!!!
Patty

Emma's#1fan
08-25-2006, 10:41 PM
As for buses, seatbelts would be a menace in a highspeed frontal impact accident. But in a roll over, which has happened, they would be blessings. As you stated though, it is very rare for a bus to roll because of it's massive size. So obviously the need is far less than in a car.

That came out wrong. Seatbelts would not be a menace but a blessing in a front impact accident. The menace would come from the bus driver having to unbuckle all the children, assuming they were all to young or all unconsious, to get them out. Which again would be rare because the size of the bus.

Emma's#1fan
08-25-2006, 10:53 PM
I don't know about other states but in California, the CHP has jurisdiction that covers streets, freeways, highways..etc... They would be an excellent source for reasons why the seatbelt law exists being that they deal with the highest number of accidents.
Something else. It was also posted earlier that even an accident that doesn't have fatalities can close a freeway or road for hours, so it doesn't matter.
But it does. It hits tax payers right in the pocket. At least in California. If a Major Accident Investigation Team has to come on out, these people have to get paid. I think human life is to be valued and if this law helps to save one life then I say go for it. I could think of numerous other laws that are horrendous but not this one. Not to me anyways.

kyzg
08-26-2006, 02:39 AM
After reading Patty's posts, a thought popped into my mind.

Assuming we all agree with Patty's argument for the seatbelt law (I think you made a good argument Patty, and it really got me thinking although I'm still not convinced it should be law). Anyway, assuming we agree about the dangers of an ejected body, then why aren't motorcycles completely outlawed? Heck, in Ohio motorcyclists aren't even required to wear helmets (but then again, that has to do with their own safety). If a motorcycle is involved in an accident, not only the driver but the bike too could go flying. Just a thought. . .

Oh, and Jen, I am someone who weighs nearly 300 lbs and I'll tell you, I get veeerrryyy nervous when my kids or my cat crawl around or under me when I'm sitting on a lawn chair!!! And I'm not kidding!!

KrisRV
08-26-2006, 10:49 AM
Patty, I do agree with you some. But, I also have the same point that kyzg has why do motorcycle wear hemlets or have too. If they are hit the bike flys and so the person and the brain damage if they live is something. I agree Bus need seat belts no the drivers don't have time to see that everyone has them on. But, I think they would get use to it just like a car, when you get in you put it on.

kyzg
08-26-2006, 11:00 AM
Patty,
After re-reading my post, I thought I'd just better clarify that the "why" about motorcycles is not directed personally to you. I know you don't make the laws, I just thought it was an interesting point to ponder. I hope no offense was taken.
Kathy

Emma's#1fan
08-26-2006, 12:09 PM
kyzg,
No problem. I understand. :D
I don't know about other states but in many, it is the majority of voters who vote these laws in. Sometimes it is the public officials we vote for who create them and then if there is an objection then it sometimes goes to the ballad(sp?) to be voted by the people.
My husbands first wife was killed in a motorcycle accident and she wasn't wearing a helmet, although due to the massive trama to her body, it may not have helped anyway. But anyways, I asked my husband why he thought motorcycles are not banned and he said, and it kind of makes sense, he thinks it's because if you compare the number of cars on the California roads (I say California because I do not know how other states operate) compared to motorcycles, the chance of an accident with a motorcycle is much lower in comparison to cars. It could be a so. I really have no clue. However I do know that they have to pay a very high premium for insurance around here and have no choice since it is illegal to drive anything around California without it.
Well, I did enjoy chit-chatting with you all. You are all a great group of people. See you around the forum and God bless!!
Patty

Emma's#1fan
08-26-2006, 12:17 PM
Oh, and Jen, I am someone who weighs nearly 300 lbs and I'll tell you, I get veeerrryyy nervous when my kids or my cat crawl around or under me when I'm sitting on a lawn chair!!! And I'm not kidding!!

This reminds me of my dear aunt. One day she decided to go and take a nap. Well instead of sitting on her bed first, she jumped on her bed, full speed ahead and all of a sudden she heard a load and high pitched, "Meoowwww!!!". Then she quickly jumped off the bed and looked under the covers. Little Kitty was plopping around making a "PHT, PHT sound and then died. It was very sad at the time but, call us sick minded, we actually chuckle about it now.:wink:
God bless!!
Patty