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*Angie*
03-06-2008, 05:08 PM
LOS ANGELES - California parents without teaching credentials can no longer home school their children, according to a recent state appellate court ruling.

"Parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children," Justice H. Walter Croskey wrote in a Feb. 28 opinion for the 2nd District Court of Appeals.

Noncompliance could lead to criminal complaints against the parents, Croskey said.

An estimated 166,000 students in California are home schooled, but it was unclear how many of them are taught solely by an uncredentialed parent.

To earn a five-year preliminary teaching credential in California, a person must obtain a bachelor's degree from an accredited college or university and complete multiple examinations.

Until now, California allowed home schooling if parents filed paperwork to establish themselves as small, private schools; hired a credentialed tutor; or enrolled their child in an independent study program run by an established school while teaching the child at home.

The state left enforcement up to local school districts, but there has been little oversight.

The old system "works so well, I don't see any reason to change it," said J. Michael Smith, president of the Virginia-based Home School Legal Defense Association.

The ruling stems from a case involving Phillip and Mary Long...

Would this be the first state to require parents have some sort of qualifications to homeschool? (I'm not up to date on regulations in other places, at all).

It sure makes me grateful for my province's lack of guidelines/requirements when it comes to educating my own children.

whoops, here's the link http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_8477915?source=rss

And sorry if it was already brought up in the other thread, I'll admit I haven't read the whole thing!

mommix3
03-06-2008, 09:44 PM
I am VERY worried for the future of homeschooling. Our Government is taking away all of our rights. This is AWEFUL!! Is this in effect already??

Angela

Dianna
03-06-2008, 10:01 PM
Hi,
I just went into the HSLDA website, and they have a petition to fight the ruling. If you are a member, here is the link. I think maybe you can sign it even if you are not a member. We should all sign it, and hopefully they will reverse this ugly mess. Anyway, for those interested in signing, here is the link.

https://www2.hslda.org/Registrations/DepublishingCaliforniaCourtDecision/

Blessings To You All,
Dianna

dawninns
03-06-2008, 10:02 PM
Wait a minute!!! The ruling did not change California law, it simply pointed it out. The law there is as it has been for years.

Nothing has been taken away from Californian homeschoolers because they were never technically legal anyway.

Where was the HSLDA and the state groups before all this happened?

Emma's#1fan
03-06-2008, 10:09 PM
Thanks for the link Dianna.

Emma's#1fan
03-06-2008, 11:18 PM
Here is another link for you all. It was posted today at HSLDA's site.

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/ca/200803060.asp

TeacherMom
03-07-2008, 02:11 AM
Wait a minute!!! The ruling did not change California law, it simply pointed it out. The law there is as it has been for years.

Nothing has been taken away from Californian homeschoolers because they were never technically legal anyway.

Where was the HSLDA and the state groups before all this happened?

What law was pointed out, as far as I saw there was not one on the books last time I looked, but of course it may have been centuries old?
the hslda did not know about it at first I was told

3angelsmom
03-07-2008, 04:47 AM
Wait a minute!!! The ruling did not change California law, it simply pointed it out. The law there is as it has been for years.

Nothing has been taken away from Californian homeschoolers because they were never technically legal anyway.

Where was the HSLDA and the state groups before all this happened?

That isn't actually correct. In California there are (were?) four legal ways to homeschool, one being declaring yourself a private school with the qualifications being that you are capable of teaching. Enrolling in a private or public ISP is also an option, as is hiring a private tutor. Now, according to new legislation the only legal way is for the parent to have a teaching credential or hire a private tutor.

Jackie
03-07-2008, 07:30 AM
FYI, Dr. Dobson is discussing this with HSLDA and others today on his broadcast, if anyone would like to listen. HSLDA has a petition that will make this ruling apply to ONLY this one family, rather than allowing it to have legal precidence for ALL in California and across the nation. I know many of you don't like HSLDA, and that's OK, but you do NOT have to be a member or even a hs'er to sign this petition. It's at their website.

If anyone would like to listen to Dr. Dobson, here's the link: http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Focus_on_the_Family/

dawninns
03-07-2008, 07:43 AM
That isn't actually correct. In California there are (were?) four legal ways to homeschool, one being declaring yourself a private school with the qualifications being that you are capable of teaching. Enrolling in a private or public ISP is also an option, as is hiring a private tutor. Now, according to new legislation the only legal way is for the parent to have a teaching credential or hire a private tutor.

There is no new legislation. There was a court ruling that pointed out one part of existing legislation. The reason why ISP's are now in question is because of that judges interopretation of the existing legislation.

dawninns
03-07-2008, 07:45 AM
FYI, Dr. Dobson is discussing this with HSLDA and others today on his broadcast, if anyone would like to listen. HSLDA has a petition that will make this ruling apply to ONLY this one family, rather than allowing it to have legal precidence for ALL in California and across the nation.

That doesn't make sense. there can't be special exceptions for how the legal system works for homeschoolers.

Jackie
03-07-2008, 08:53 AM
If it doesn't make sense, it's probably due to my inadequate explanations! Sorry, I'm not "legal" enough to explain it better!

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 08:54 AM
We signed the petition last night and have sent it off, via email to numerous of people who are sending to to more people. I think the more people we can get to sign, the better chances we have of depublishing the order.

dawninns
03-07-2008, 08:54 AM
If it doesn't make sense, it's probably due to my inadequate explanations! Sorry, I'm not "legal" enough to explain it better!

When I don't make sense I just blame the alchohol. :D

Jackie
03-07-2008, 08:55 AM
They are asking for EVERYONE to sign, regardless of whether or not they are Californians.

Jackie
03-07-2008, 08:56 AM
When I don't make sense I just blame the alchohol. :D


Not THIS early in the morning, LOL!!!

kbabe1968
03-07-2008, 09:02 AM
Dawninns...

Are you saying that this law is only effecting those who claim to be thier own "private school" in which they were already required to have a teaching credential of some kind in order to be able to do that? and that the other 3 types of options are still available?

When I read the story the first time - the thought did cross my mind that IF the family was not following the legal set out procedure for homeschooling then YES, it was THEM in violation, not the law cracking down on them for being in violation. Right?

I still think I hate governmental control, yes....but if you ARE violating the law you should have some kind of consequenses.

I don't live in CA...but I live in PA where they tend to follow the stricter interpretations of the laws....

AHHHH!!!!!!

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 09:09 AM
The order affects all options except the option of having your child taught by a certified teacher/tutor. I wonder where this leaves Charter programs. I heard that it will also affect them as well. Being under a charter is no different than being under an ISP. The only difference is the rules the group requires to be fulfilled vary.

TeacherMom
03-07-2008, 09:34 AM
Okay, umm am I the only one here who knows that public school teachers are not credentialed here in California?
If they are not, and are 'capable of teaching' then so am I. Legal and all!

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 09:36 AM
I hear you TMom. We have many teachers at the private Christian school that have not yet completed their education. They are required to complete it while they teach. My friend is one of them. She had to sign a contract with the school that she will continue her education.

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 09:43 AM
I still think I hate governmental control, yes....but if you ARE violating the law you should have some kind of consequenses.


This is why HSLDA is trying to unpublish the documents. It should only apply to the family, if they did do something wrong. But not to the whole 200,000 homeschoolers in California. This order came down upon all of us. I also read something about the judges using a case from 1950 to support their decision.

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 09:50 AM
The order affects all options except the option of having your child taught by a certified teacher/tutor. I wonder where this leaves Charter programs. I heard that it will also affect them as well. Being under a charter is no different than being under an ISP. The only difference is the rules the group requires to be fulfilled vary.

I forgot to add that the ISP is private and the Charter is state.

Lee
03-07-2008, 09:56 AM
This is crazy! I'll be listening to the radio program today if I don't forget. I signed the petition also. They shouldn't punish everyone because of one family. That is always a worry of mine when we travel is that I will have one person who doesn't like homeschooling and causes problems for us. This is why I am part of HSLDA.

TeacherMom
03-07-2008, 09:59 AM
Yep, and hubby just got done telling me I could continue schooling , I missed the deadline to sign up but this summer I may take some mroe classes, so if I am schooling I should be fine!
I have two years of college in teaching area, and one of transportation tourism, thats why we love geography in this house! .... so I am close enough not to worry I think even if they get testy here.
I will admit I stressed out when I first read all the legal mumbo jumbo posted but I then remembered to pray ( DUH!?) and know my steps are ordered of the Lord! I remember starting a thread a while back , last year? That said "What would you do if home schooling became illegal"
So that gave me more peace realising I already knew what I would do ha!

dawninns
03-07-2008, 10:01 AM
kbabe1968 - I think doing things like using an ISP was how some parents, including those in the case, were complying with the private school option and the ruling says that that's not good enough.

Another thing to keep in mind that I just learned is that this decision does NOT effect all Californian homeschoolers. It effects those in the 2nd appelate district (whatever that is).

And here I am playing the complete devil's advocate but I do have two points concerning the issue being made of the matter. First that people outside the homschooling community may see the furor we're kicking up as a defense of abusive parents and also, that this may urge the state to actually come up with clearer legislation and that may be a worse thing in the long run.

Again, I'm playing devil's advocate. I'm sort of just watching this and reading about it and bringing up here what I've read elsewhere.

dawninns
03-07-2008, 10:03 AM
Okay, umm am I the only one here who knows that public school teachers are not credentialed here in California?
If they are not, and are 'capable of teaching' then so am I. Legal and all!

Wow...Thanks for that info!

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 10:14 AM
Another thing to keep in mind that I just learned is that this decision does NOT effect all Californian homeschoolers. It effects those in the 2nd appelate district (whatever that is).



Where did you read this? I am interesting in reading it.
The problem with the publication is it CAN be used anywhere in California. This is why HSLDA and others are trying to have it unpublished.

dawninns
03-07-2008, 10:19 AM
Where did you read this? I am interesting in reading it.
The problem with the publication is it CAN be used anywhere in California. This is why HSLDA and others are trying to have it unpublished.

I should have made a note because I can't remember. I think it directly affects those in that district now but it probably could be used as a precident on other cases in other districts. Of course, by that time the decision could also have been appealled.

Ya know, I think we're going to learn a lot about the law in California! :)

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 10:21 AM
Another thing to keep in mind that I just learned is that this decision does NOT effect all Californian homeschoolers. It effects those in the 2nd appelate district (whatever that is).


The Second Appellate District has jurisdiction over Los Angeles, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, and Ventura Counties. BUT, published documents are open for all. This case can be used against a defense. But let us assume you are correct, why should all these counties have to stop homeschooling because of one family?

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 10:25 AM
Ya know, I think we're going to learn a lot about the law in California! :)
I agree!:D This will make an awesome Government/Civics lesson!

TeacherMom
03-07-2008, 10:30 AM
Well as it could be used it just means we need to be on our toes, you know? Be sure we are doing a good job of teaching and doing what is proper, I think the only people who should worry are those who are slacking and not actually teaching anything to thier kids. No matter what your philosiphys ( OH I spelled that so wrong LOL) learning is nessacary to call your home a home school. If we are not always off playing and are not getting into trouble there will be no need to have alarm.
Even if one judge decided this , he is not the supreme court and that would be the one we would have to watch for. Unfortunately thats what I read that the hsdla was going for is an apeal to the SC. now that part will scare me because it will get more national attention and that could effect us good or bad.... so that will be where my prayers are heading today!

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 10:32 AM
It wasn't one judge. It was three.

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 10:37 AM
We have to remember, that God is in control BUT He also doesn't want us to sit around and not do anything about this. Sadly, many of those who are falsely accused ARE law abiding homeschoolers. They are following regulations.
We will continue to homeschool as we have been doing, but this doesn't mean we will not be unfairly persecuated for it. I am positive that God is more than aware what it going on, but we need to make a move now before we look back and realize that we waited to long.

Laja656
03-07-2008, 10:40 AM
So, here's what I'm wondering --- what, exactly, are the laws governing private schools in CA?

Here in Texas, ALL homeschools are considered 'private schools'.. Private schools in Texas are completely unregulated by the state.... which is why we, as parent/teachers, aren't required to complete any courses or earn a degree.

That's where this whole mess should start..... if private schools are unregulated in CA also..... then I don't see how they can force these kids into PS.

It's SO confusing right now...UGH! I'm just glad I'm in TX!

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 10:53 AM
So, here's what I'm wondering --- what, exactly, are the laws governing private schools in CA?



That's where this whole mess should start..... if private schools are unregulated in CA also..... then I don't see how they can force these kids into PS.

It's SO confusing right now...UGH! I'm just glad I'm in TX!
California private schools; homeschools, operate under the same brick and mortar law as privately funded private schools. However, we need to teach the same subjects the public schools teach.
IF, and this is a BIG IF, parents are neglecting their child's education, then the parent should put the child into public school. But the problem with this ruling is it has fallen on the laps of ALL homeschoolers in California.
Usually, in a case, the ruling is for or against the one party.

3angelsmom
03-07-2008, 11:12 AM
There is no new legislation. There was a court ruling that pointed out one part of existing legislation. The reason why ISP's are now in question is because of that judges interopretation of the existing legislation.

Okay, that's good then. I read an article that refered to the decision as new legislation. I am very glad to hear it isn't! I've been reading so much, trying to figure out what is going on and how it effects my family.
I do think there should be some type of regulations to ensure children are getting a proper education, but I don't think a parent has to have a teaching credential to do a good job.

Lee
03-07-2008, 11:34 AM
This all comes down to child endangerment. They found one family who happens to homeschool and the homeschoolers are now getting the discipline. What about all the other thousands of families that mistreat their children who attend ps. They slap them on the hand or eventually pull them out of the home. They should be focusing on the childs welfare not the issue of homeschooling. You're always going to have some bad eggs no matter where it is.

TeacherMom
03-07-2008, 11:45 AM
Lee I totaly agree, this is how some folks tend to put a bad name on home schooling.
I have a friend that thier family didn't like that they home schooled and sicked CPS on them they had to learn how to teach everything perfect the first time to show that it was not as the family said.
In this case the way the world is teaching our children about 'reporting your parents' I am not suprised the way this came to be known. Of course they must have evidence for it to go this far, but how many kids get taken from homes who just got mad at their parents and lied? And how many more do not get taken out and die because of leaniancy. I am glad I never went into Social Work as I was thinking of doing years ago it would kill me to try to keep up.

Jackie
03-07-2008, 12:17 PM
From what I've read, the original complaint came from a young teen who didn't like the rules Daddy put on her. So she claimed she was abused. There was NOTHING in the court documents that substantiated that claim. One reason they are DEMANDING the kids be put in a school is so that the teachers can monitor any problems IF any occur. They are ASSUMING the guilt WITHOUT evidence of it. If there is abuse, then deal with it. But if not, there's no reason at all for the family to quit homeschooling.

I believe California has been waiting for an opportunity to push the laws. They know that homeschoolers have found a loophole in their law. And this has provided them with an opportunity to close it up. And right now, with the new law regarding the strong push of the homesexual agenda in the schools, they NEED to close it up. Too many parents in California are trying to remove thier children for that reason.

dawninns
03-07-2008, 12:27 PM
California has always had that opportunity though. The law is the same as what it was before the decision. The fact that homeschoolers were given the flexibility they have been suggests just the opposite, that the state was quite satisfied with the state of homeschooling in the state. If they had wanted to somehow impede people from homeschooling in California they always had the means to do so.

TeacherMom
03-07-2008, 12:32 PM
the thing that I don't think they are thinking about seriously is that our schools are failing to the point of closing schools for lack of funding. Where do they expect to put 200,000 or more students HA?
We have over loaded schools here in our wonderful state, there are waiting lists for good private schools, and new ones poping up but our public schools are closing because they can't afford to pay the teacher salaries. Let alone pay for anything for them to teach.
This was in the news last week before this wonderful thing in LA.

Jackie
03-07-2008, 12:34 PM
Very good question, T'mom! And if that many people decide on civil disobedience and refuse to send their kids, they sure can't take that many kids from their parents and put them in the foster system!!!

Lee
03-07-2008, 12:35 PM
Ugh, I missed Dr. James Dobson. I was giving a spelling test and when I remembered it was just about over. Did anyone catch it? I may try to listen to the afternoon broadcast.

TeacherMom
03-07-2008, 12:37 PM
OH my yes, re foster system here is over loaded already toO! in fact I was told there are tons of Babies even that need homes!

Jackie
03-07-2008, 12:37 PM
Lee, I posted the link. If you go there, you can listen on-line so it's OK if you missed it.

Lee
03-07-2008, 12:40 PM
Oh thanks, it's one of those crazy days and I know that I'm not catching everything. We did get an A on our spelling test though - Yippeee!!!!!! Also got our tax return and paid off alot - another Yippeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay back to school......

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 12:54 PM
I just hear the show. AWWWW! I hope that every homeschooling parent listens to it, whether they are Christians or not. I liked that they lists past cases that were used to influence the courts dicision. It gave more detail to what we already know.

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 01:00 PM
This is not the first time that the government has tried to strongly regulate or stop homeschooling. If you listen to Focus On The Family, they discussed different times when in government was pushing for a change in Legislature.

dawninns
03-07-2008, 02:54 PM
But it's not the government trying to regulate or stop homeschoolers!!! The state most likely felt just as blindsided by the decision as homeschoolers.

Here is a quote from another post that goes into more detail and really lays out what happened:

It does not behoove the state, or the CA educational system, or anyone really, to accept this court’s ruling as the correct interpretation of the law. It might be the butter on some individual’s toast to “finally” get those pesky homeschoolers, but in reality, this is such a big ruling, it would effect everyone if it stood as is.

By everyone she means the state and private schools. Apparently the law does NOT say teachers at private schools need to be credentialed but rather that they must be "capable of teaching.”

We're getting closer to the truth which seems to be a bad interpretation on the judges' parts. And THAT is something best dealt with in appeal.

rmcx5
03-07-2008, 03:54 PM
OK, I haven't read every post in this thread but if you missed the Dobson broadcast...there is a thread on it and on the petition.

Link to Dobson broadcast:
http://www.oneplace.com/Ministries/Focus_on_the_Family/Default.asp

Link to thread with petition info (that I posted earlier today)
http://www.homeschoolspot.com/showthread.php?t=11176


Rhonda C.

Ava Rose
03-07-2008, 04:09 PM
Are there any updates on this issue?

Dianna
03-07-2008, 05:01 PM
Hi, you can get updates at HSLDA, here is the link.

http://www.hslda.org/Default.asp?bhcp=1

Blessings,
Dianna

CrystalCA
03-07-2008, 06:04 PM
Here is a nice little letter that the schools districts will send out to homeschooling parents now:

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/ai/sb/documents/homeschooling.doc

This is directly from the CA dept of educations website:

Other than traditional public school classrooms, what choices are available for my child's education?
California law explicitly recognizes four choices available to parents who wish to seek an educational setting other than a traditional public school classroom for their child:

A tutor who holds a current California teaching credential for the grade level being taught (EC 48224). The tutor must provide instruction:
In the English language
In all the branches of study required in the public schools
For at least 175 days per calendar year
For at least three hours a day between 8:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m.
Because the tutor must provide instruction in all branches of study required in the public schools, the Multiple Subject Teaching Credential satisfies the credential requirement at all grade levels. The Single Subject Teaching Credential is not sufficient at any grade level. The Multiple Subject Teaching Credential is valid for kindergarten through grade twelve in self-contained classrooms, whereas the Single Subject Credential authorizes teaching a special subject only, such as math or English. Further credential information is available from the California Commission for Teacher Credentialing (Outside Source) Web site.

The credentialed tutor may be the parent or any person employed by the parent. A tutor is not required to file the Private School Affidavit.

A private full-time day school or boarding school (EC 48222) where instruction is provided by "persons capable of teaching," that keeps an attendance register indicating clearly every absence of the pupil from school for a half day or more during each day the school is maintained during the year, and that provides instruction in the English language and all the branches of study required in California public schools. The Private School Affidavit must be filed annually by the private school.

Independent study through a public school district or county office of education (EC 51745 and following), where the student is enrolled in a school of the district and enters into a written agreement, prior to beginning independent study, that specifies the curriculum and methods of study, the arrangements for meeting with the teacher and submitting assignments, and other information.

Independent study is an alternative to classroom instruction that is offered by many public school districts pursuant to EC sections 51745 and following. Independent study is not an exemption from public school attendance. Rather, it is an instructional strategy that allows students to carry on their public school education outside the classroom based on a written agreement. The agreement includes requirements consistent with the local school district's course of study. A certificated employee of the district is designated as the "supervising teacher," and this person makes the assignments, evaluates the student's work, and assigns grades.

A child with exceptional needs may participate in independent study only if his or her individualized education program, developed pursuant to
EC sections 56340 and following, provides for that participation (EC 51745(c)).

If a student's school district does not offer independent study, parents are encouraged to contact their county office of education regarding the availability of independent study through the county or through other districts in their area. Contact your local school district or county office of education for more information.

Enrollment in a charter school organized in accordance with EC sections 47600 and following.

A charter school is a public school, and it may provide instruction in any of grades
kindergarten through twelve. A charter school is usually created or organized by a group of teachers, parent and community leaders or a community-based organization, and it is usually sponsored by an existing local public school board or county board of education. Specific goals and operating procedures for the charter school are detailed in an agreement (or "charter") between the sponsoring board and charter organizers.

The Charter Schools Web page is available with more information.
Is home schooling recognized in California as exempting a student from public school attendance?
California statutes do not explicitly authorize home schooling. Whether a home schooled child is attending a private school, and therefore is exempt from public school attendance, is a decision made by local school districts and law enforcement authorities.

May a parent who is home schooling his or her own child file a Private School Affidavit?
Yes. A parent offering or providing private school instruction and who meets the requirements of EC Section 33190 may file an Affidavit in the manner described. However, filing such an Affidavit with the CDE does not constitute any opinion by the CDE as to whether a student enrolled in that school is exempt from public school attendance.

I have filed the Private School Affidavit certifying that I maintain all of the required private school records. If the attendance supervisor from the public school district verifies the filing of the Affidavit, am I also required to show the records to the attendance supervisor?
Yes. EC Section 48222 requires that private schools maintain attendance records in a register that records the absence of a pupil for the school for a half day or more during any day that school is maintained. In addition, EC Section 33190 requires the annual filing of the Affidavit, and EC Section 48222 provides that a child's exemption from public school is not valid until the district's attendance supervisor has verified the filing of the Affidavit. The certification on the Affidavit is not a substitute for showing the attendance records to the attendance supervisor. By reviewing these records, the attendance supervisor can confirm a student's attendance at the private school.

I am planning to use a correspondence course to teach my child at home. The umbrella organization that provides the course also provides testing, assigns the grades, and provides the diploma. Is this an exemption from the compulsory attendance law?
California law does not recognize correspondence courses as exempting a child from public school attendance. Whether this situation could qualify as private school instruction would depend on whether the requirements specified in EC Section 33190 were met. In addition, the question of whether a home schooled child is attending private school, and therefore is exempt from public school attendance, is a decision made by local school districts and law enforcement authorities.

I had to dig around my garage to pull my papers from CA , I found them and back in 2004 the laws are the same as they are now. Its up to each district within the State of CA to accept the Private School affividat from homeschoolers as a way to comply with the attendance laws of the state.
So even if you used the PUBLIC SCHOOL independent study program you would still be breaking the attendance laws of CA!!!
That is what this ruling is about, attendance!! So homeschoolers are not the only ones effected by this, ISP's ,charters and correspondence schools ( like K12) are under fire also!

rmcx5
03-07-2008, 06:10 PM
Yikes Crystal!!

Thanks for posting more of the details. Lots of praying going on for all you CA Homeschoolers on our end (as well as signing the HSLDA petitiion, of course).

Rhonda C.

TeacherMom
03-07-2008, 07:50 PM
Dawinns you sound lke you would know... does this judge even have the juristiction or right to make such a blank statement? covering so much ground I mean? One thing I will say is this probably made a lot of homeschoolers scared and working harder at making sure they are teaching correctly and all
my kids said I should get my credetials then I could teach anyway, not a bad idea ... took my friend who also taught as she went at private and state schools like 20 years to get through her teaching, but she worked full time and schooled off and on... I wonder how long it would take to go from two year certif program to the full thing? Maybe I will click on one of those teaching certif at home links one of these days haha!

TeacherMom
03-07-2008, 07:53 PM
ok, if this is only about attendence then what's the big deal, we keep records of attendence doesnt everyone?

Actressdancer
03-07-2008, 08:02 PM
ok, if this is only about attendence then what's the big deal, we keep records of attendence doesnt everyone?

From what I can tell, it's about physically showing up at a public school building each day.

JenniferErix
03-07-2008, 08:19 PM
We do not keep attendance.

I am chiming in because the news has hit national. Big coverage on the local stations here, in Texas. What makes me nervous is that you have people "Chiming in" on this topic who didn't even have homeschooling on their radars, yesterday.

Yesterday, everything was fine.
Now suddenly everything is "Suspicious" and water-cooler talk fodder for Monday morning office worker moms who have their kids in public school. Suddenly, something will have to be done to make sure those homeschoolers aren't getting away with something.

Sorry, just the mood around here.....

rmcx5
03-07-2008, 08:21 PM
We do not keep attendance.

No attendance records here either. Technically we're supposed to do 180 (ish) days BUT the only req'ment to meet the law, is to jump thru a year end hoop....we chose standardized testing as it's the easiest for our family.

Rhonda C.

Jackie
03-07-2008, 08:28 PM
You know, Jen, those "office worker moms" are more than welcome to follow me around on one of my typical days!!! THEY can see how much studying goes on in my house, how I juggle three kids' schedules with all the "social" activities we do, how I grade papers, keep them on track, do the grocery shopping, laundry, keep house, drive Carl to and from work because we only have one car, and ALL with a SMILE on my face (though sometimes I think it's more of a grimace, lol!). And it's not just ME, and you ALL know that's true! Just LET THEM try to keep up with us! "Pulling something over" INDEED!!!

JenniferErix
03-07-2008, 09:03 PM
Preachin' to the choir, Jackie, I know.

I just watch people.

And I know that yesterday, no one here was running to the cops to report "All those un-regulated homeschooled kids" who run around busting car windows at night, or all those un-regulated homeschooled kids who cannot get jobs because they never learned to read..

But suddenly (Because most people only hear sound bytes and not the actual information (Because they have public school research skills) they will suddenly be "Concerned" about these "poor kids who are being denied a fair chance at a full education". Or, sudden;y homeschooled kids are on their radar because they are getting away with something that they don't get to do.

I get a lot of that last one....

Ugh!
Just coming here to be with like-minded folks.

Just hoping the "Furver" dies down before some "Busy Body" decides we need to "Investigate" what the heck "Those people" are doing with their kids all day.

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 10:23 PM
This problem was in all our newspapers. My sister was watching the news this morning and this was also one of the topics discussed. Isn't it interesting how so many people are now experts on homechooling?!:mad:

TeacherMom
03-07-2008, 11:41 PM
Well here in Ca we are to keep attendance thats it for private schools, but I keep the rest of a lot of what we do and all that, for several years... and Home school tracker is helping with that, plus SOS as well!
I am hoping that this will help things move for the better, over all with the problems our schools have here in CA if the fear of homeschoolers having to attend non existant schools doesn't scare them into changing things something has to!

Emma's#1fan
03-07-2008, 11:47 PM
Right down the hill, a few schools were closed. Now some schools have 40 students to a class.:eek: We have an elementary school that was built a few years ago and it is still standing empty to this day. The state had money to build it but not enough to open it.:| Yet, as of now, they are building another high school. It is huge. I guess it is already considered "full" once the students from the other high schools are transfered over.:? What a mess!

TeacherMom
03-07-2008, 11:56 PM
They took two schools to put into one high school in my city, there are three jr highs, and who knows how many grade schools but only one high school... and now one district is getting upset because an anex of our city is transfering students cross boundaries to get into thier schools because ours are full.. no wonder so many people are in home school groups here, we have waiting lists on one of our groups in my county, it is 100 people long as of a few years ago, now I came in a back door to a smaller group and my dds co op class today had 20 students, for an etiquite class!
High level of home schoolers in my county, most are connected to hslda.

Emma's#1fan
03-08-2008, 12:01 AM
The very same thing happened here. We were busing students to the other district.
Today my sister told me that the charter she is part of has cut out all field trips and extras for the rest of the school year because of cuts from the state.

TeacherMom
03-08-2008, 12:07 AM
Well at least they will have to take all the hundres of thousands into account, litterally before they make any rash discisions over all the state... What a riot, again litterally, it would be!

Emma's#1fan
03-08-2008, 12:14 AM
"Literally" is indeed the word!!!:lol: :lol:
200,000 students and their parents! This will be interesting to see.

dawninns
03-08-2008, 09:13 AM
[QUOTE=TeacherMom;171043]Dawinns you sound lke you would know... does this judge even have the juristiction or right to make such a blank statement? covering so much ground I mean? QUOTE]

I think that's what an appeal would decide, whether the judgement was correct and the interpretation of California law was a correct one. Apparently in the original case the judge found that the family were homeschooling legally (I'll have to check into that) and it was in this appeal that it was overturned.

Emma's#1fan
03-08-2008, 04:25 PM
Even if this shouldn't or couldn't be done, it WAS done. I think everybody is in agreement that the judges were out of line. This is why there is such an uproar. It wasn't warrented, yet the Appellate Court felt they had a right. Now hopefully, this can be remedied as simply as possible.

Lehrerin Mutti
03-09-2008, 03:53 PM
Hi all! I am a HSLDA member and I have been sent the email link from HSLDA to sign the petition, but my daughter made a good point. After reading the petition, and the form for signing, I have to ask myself, do I really want all of my personal contact information out there on the World Wide Web for anyone to view? I would like to sign, even though I am not from CA, and would like to show my support for the right of home schoolers everywhere to home school. I just do not want my personal contact information available to everyone on the World Wide Webb.(I have seen petitions like these on the internet before, with very personal information available to anyone.) Why do they need all of the personal contact info? Why can we not simply sign a paper petition w/o giving all of our personal info?

On another note of this issue on government regulation and oversight of home schools and private schools. I to believe that the public school system can't handle the responsibilities they already have, and can't or should NOT be responsible for overseeing the needs of private and home schoolers. So let me get this straight. They want to override the authority and responsibility of parents to govern the education of their children? Like parents can not be responsible enough to provide a decent education for their children w/o being overlooked or governed by the public schools?

As responsible parents, WE are providing not only for our children's education K-12th grade, but WE are and HAVE provided a savings plan for them to pay for college, as well as the support to plan for, and prepare for entrance requirements to apply & get IN to the college of their choice. Are the public schools prepared to do the same?

I agree with the posters who pointed out that it is NOT our home schooled students out on the streets vandalizing, breaking the law, endangering citizens, but the many lost and overlooked kids WITHIN the over-stretched public school system. I also agree that the public school system should spend their time, money and effort on FIXING their own education system, BEFORE they waste their time, energy & expense trying to override, oversee and regulate the education of hundreds of thousands of private and home schooled students nationwide.

I do see this as the way the government is headed though. Government is getting bigger and with all the technology at IT's hands now, IT sees IT's capability to oversee and "govern" a power within IT's grasp. That kind of power is too great for IT to resist.

Public schools have become factories for the cheapest "education" for mass production. They spend more money now on installing security systems, locked doors, camera surveillance, bullet proof windows(where there are windows), dog tags(ID's worn around students necks) with microchip identification, and they are left with only enough money for a Walmart curriculum. How is an education in a penitentiary better than one in a private or home school?

Haven't the Public Schools enough problems of their own to deal with as it is w/o having to ask for more?

Heather
03-10-2008, 12:19 PM
I guess my question to all of this is why hasn't HSLD or other groups challenged the Calf. Law of home schooling before it got so out of hand. Once again I am a HSLD member and got the same email notification like so many others did. The way I read the law in Calf. home schooling your children there is basically a loop hole. Why wasn't something done before this?

TeacherMom
03-10-2008, 02:39 PM
well actually its not out of hand, its just worded in a funny way. and the media is doing its thing of blowing things away and freaking out people hehe

Earthy
03-10-2008, 02:42 PM
Please fill out this form,
https://www2.hslda.org/Registrations/DepublishingCaliforniaCourtDecision/
if you haven't already.

Emma's#1fan
03-10-2008, 05:30 PM
I guess my question to all of this is why hasn't HSLD or other groups challenged the Calf. Law of home schooling before it got so out of hand. Once again I am a HSLD member and got the same email notification like so many others did. The way I read the law in Calf. home schooling your children there is basically a loop hole. Why wasn't something done before this?
Nobody wanted to mess with "good enough". Dealing with legilation will also bring along more rules and regulations. People feel that homeschooling through a loophole is better than possibly not being able to homeschool at all. Now, by going to the Supreme Court, this just may happen. Either the case will not be overturned, the documents will not be unpublished, or the exact opposite may happen. People, including HSLDA, did not want to bring this on any sooner than necessary. If we tried to challenge the law before this case came about, the courts might have told us years earlier that we couldn't homeschool. This is why HSLDA wants to unpublish to report before actually dealing with legislation. This is also why some California homeschoolers do not want the governor to create new laws or regulations because they might be more difficult than what we were dealing with prior to this case. Now, if the Supreme Court shoots down the request, then perhaps it will be time for the governor to intervene but some people would like it to go back to the way it was. Homeschooling through a loophole has its benefits and, as we see now, its downfall.

Dianna
03-10-2008, 08:14 PM
They couldn't keep up with a homeschool mom if they tried. That's why they don't homeschool.:eek: Sorry, was that mean? :twisted: LOL!

Blessings,
Dianna


You know, Jen, those "office worker moms" are more than welcome to follow me around on one of my typical days!!! THEY can see how much studying goes on in my house, how I juggle three kids' schedules with all the "social" activities we do, how I grade papers, keep them on track, do the grocery shopping, laundry, keep house, drive Carl to and from work because we only have one car, and ALL with a SMILE on my face (though sometimes I think it's more of a grimace, lol!). And it's not just ME, and you ALL know that's true! Just LET THEM try to keep up with us! "Pulling something over" INDEED!!!